– In your opinion, what roots can the argument of the Cassation Court-Chamber of Attorneys have? What can be caused from counter-accusations of the two bodies?
– First, the patience of attorneys has reached its limits. And on the other hand, they have become more courageous, which is in favor of all of us. An attorney should be audacious and should not function like during the soviet period sycophant, attached to the courts and many of attorneys remain the same even now. But they also need cheap attorneys, who’d write an appeal letter with 5000 drams. The latter don’t even care about the rest of the proceeding. Of course, today they are not the ones that are active. And the problem really has deep roots and comes from the past. It will be hard to fit it all in our interview.
– But why now? Did the problem pop up just now?
– The time has come. Of course, this matter is quite old and rotten. The RA Constitution has included the prosecutors in the judicial branch of power as well, which is not right. The other matter is that is the pre-investigation cycle, which has become a malignant tumor for us. It comes back from the 30s of the last century, when the investigative body, with the support of the prosecutor, self-condemns the suspects and even now the same thing continues. At first sight it may look that we are straining from the topic but this is a narrow professional conversation, which requires that we analyze everything step by step. Thus, the pre-investigative body is de facto and also de jure authorized to practice justice – for example to launch a case, arrest, bring charges and even expunge cases. The man says, “I’m not guilty. I want to go to court and prove my innocence.” However the investigator says, “You are guilty but I am expunging the case or think that the case shouldn’t be sent to court.” Either the evidence is not sufficient or there has been amnesty or because of the change of circumstances the person is not a threat for the society anymore. At any rate, we have actual cases. For example, in regard of the tragic events of March 1, 2008 Myasnik Malkhasyan was accused in a crime and he was kept under custody with unclear grounds. This means that the investigator works with the support of the prosecution and no positive traits are recorded; only cosmetic changes take place. Therefore, I’m sure that the pre-investigation should be annihilated as a first stage of investigation. Although I am also born from prosecution but truly believe that besides the courts no one else should be in charge of practicing justice. And the person that still has the presumption of innocence can now be arrested by the investigator, which is considered a criminal punishment but in most of the cases this is done groundlessly. This is an important matter. And the judges don’t dare to oppose the judicial system. Even one refusal is painfully perceived by the prosecution. According to soviet mentality and inertness the prosecution stands at a higher position except the cases when the attorney is courageous and is able to make noise. In many cases the prosecutor even reprimands the court and forces the sentence measures. And this is the second issue. The law requires that prosecution discloses all the circumstances of crime. But no, the prosecutor determines even this. So what can the lawyers do in this case? The latter appears in a demeaning role. If the judge attempts to temper the punishment a big problem will be originated. Try to imagine what the attorney feels if he is not audacious except for a few courageous and knowledgeable attorneys that are able to keep the courts vigilant.
– What is the image of the attorney in light of relations with the RA judicial system?
– The attorney is the representative of the suspect, writes petitions, defends the defendant in the court, etc. In the first stage he is not able to do anything even when he sees unjust actions because according to the law attorneys cannot have access to the details of the case and investigation until the latter is over. This is called secrecy. But what secrecy are we talking about? These are not matters of state secret or national security. The investigators can also deny their mediations with just two lines without mentioning the grounds for denial. Both operative manners of investigation and competition suffer as a result. The attorney doesn’t feel equal even ethically. The judges are often frightened by prosecutors and judges are disrespectful to attorneys. Especially in the case of young attorneys, they are scorned and disdained. And as a result, unjust decisions and verdicts are made. But the reason why the attorneys don’t have hatred to the first instance courts and court of Cassation is because they hope that the latter will appeal the verdicts and justice will be granted. Yes the attorneys often stay silent instead of complaining about the decisions of the first instance courts. They can also apply to the Justice Council. So this matter is multi-lateral. The court should view the lawyers as a defender and a full participant of justice system. Moreover, if we take into account the fact that the Court of Cassation is almost equal to God in Armenia and they decide human fates, it should be more equitable and detail-oriented and abstain from refuting complaints and mediations.
– What is the situation like within your law firm?
– That’s a good question. You know that our office has been functioning for seven years now but so far no complaint has been considered by the Court of Cassation. How could Pargev Ohanyan, a former judge, professor, attorney, not be able to push for at least one complaint? This is absurd. We receive cases, which we feel will be accepted, the ones that are formulated and developed accurately and literately. But this is what’s happening. Let them explain the motives of discrimination. I can bring examples when the court accepted the cases of illiterate layers and denied Pargev Ohanyan’s. The Court of Cassation is an indisputable and invulnerable body because the chair of the Court is also the chair of the Justice Council. Therefore, I cannot consider the complaint of the Chamber of Attorneys groundless. Moreover, the causes of denials of the Court of Cassation are unclear. I am now fully isolated from the system. Right now I live in my summer house with my birds and plants. I read lots of literature and now when I get back to analyzing the situation I start to really feel very sorry.
– How would you comment on the fact that after a one-day strike the meeting of the Chamber of Attorneys and the RA President took place, after which seemingly a solution was found and it was agreed to jointly work to resolve the discrepancies.
– I welcome that meeting. If there are active and struggling lawyers there can be certain progress. It is necessary to voice our complaints and seriously advocate for the solution of these problems.
– Let’s speak about the 4-5 precedents when the attorneys took money from the clients to pas to judges for favorable verdicts. So is the problem only within the courts? The allegations of the judges that the attorneys are businessmen are perhaps substantiated. Isn’t it time to cut the number of attorneys in Armenia and the most demanded and quality attorneys remain?
– I wouldn’t like to connect issue of corrupt attorneys and the necessity of cut together. I am against that. There should be competition so that people start to figure out the good and bad. Let the number grow, let them also make money. There are attorneys, who only write complaints and make 5000 drams. Others demand 100,000 drams for one complaint letter.
– Have there been cases when you fined the attorneys for disrespectful attitude to the court.
– Yes, there have been such cases. Why shouldn’t they be fined for being inappropriate? I have fined a deputy-head of cadastre service. And that’s normal. But these examples are quite few.
– In your opinion what should be done to resolve the abovementioned issues?
– First, as we said, the pre-investigative body should be nullified. And some of the duties should be passed on the post-investigative body and some to the courts. We can reach tangible results by only adopting the Georgian model. Despite our efforts and changes we stay on the same spot. We always blame the law for everything and forget the human factor here as well. If the citizens and officials don’t change, even the most perfect laws can’t help. And the attorneys should be respected and be an equal side of court proceedings. That’s it.
Syuzanna KHALATYAN