– As the head of the General Armed Forces of RA you are responsible for the discipline of the army personnel, moral-psychological atmosphere and other matters. However, so far you haven’t provided any clarification about the incidents and death cases in the army. Why are we facing the current situation in the sector that is under your auspices? I mean the recent death cases in the army.
– Indeed, I am responsible for the structure. That is a big one and the youth of Armenia serves there. All the issues that exist in our society also exist in the army. It is not quite so that everything is perfectly regulated in the army and that all the orders are fulfilled immediately. It is hard to serve the army. Here you should always tell the soldier, officer what to do, where to go, what time to be there, etc. It is a very tough job. And that’s why there are conflicts. Those are young people and they start to argue with each other. And I specifically mean the last events. I wouldn’t dare to say that this was an intentional murder. It happened momentarily. The soldier that was being cured at the medical point illegally did something bad in the wrong place. Another soldier told him you cannot do that. He didn’t say a bad thing but did a bad thing by killing a man. According to him, after his remark Abrahamyan responded very rudely and he hit him 2-3 times and as he’s a karate master his hits were very powerful. Abrahamyan fainted and moved to the medical point. There the lieutenant-chief instead of helping him also hit Abrahamyan. The officer thought Abrahamyan was simulating. If the person was taken to a medical point feeling bad then the officers had to treat him accordingly. They are both arrested and they are both villains. They are both bad Armenians and must be punished. Besides them two more people were arrested, two doctors, who were at the medical point at the time and had to do something to preclude the incident. So three officers and one soldier are under arrest. Now the investigative service of the defense ministry is in charge of this case. We don’t have new data. You cannot imagine how closely we take these incidents in the army to our hearts. Each victim is a tragedy for us. Frankly I cannot think otherwise because I have children too. The father lost the son. What words of consolation can I utter? Whatever I say is not going to be accepted. He lost a son…
– But these incidents wouldn’t repeat if there was no impunity in the army.
– Who told you there is impunity in the army? Only in the main regiment we have conducted 53 investigations this year. If the damage is not big (such as bruises, etc.) the commander of the military base sends us a written report explaining the reason of the incident. We analyze those cases and incidents, discuss those during our sessions. If there are more serious cases, such as knife stabbing, armed weapon injuries our officers visit those bases and examine the situation. 50 orders were released by me and the commander as a result of 53 examinations. 149 soldiers and officers received surcharges this year, 10 people were dismissed and fired, 27 resigned.
– In that case why do we have this situation? How do you explain this? For example, Yeghnikner military base is considered the worst base.
– It is not so. Yeghnikner is one of our best regiments. In the defense army this base was the best. During this year two cases occurred there. But the soldiers are very well prepared. I should say that everything is OK in that base. It wouldn’t be accurate to say that everything is bad there.
– Why don’t you change your personnel then?
– These 10 people were fired from among this personnel. We have replaced almost half of the NKR commanders.
– You are using every occasion to claim that our army is the best-trained in the region. But the fact is that many people are scared to send their children to the army. Can you, as a chief commander of the armed forces of Armenia, guarantee that such incidents won’t occur anymore? Or will you guarantee that you will personally be in charge, by sending people to the military bases to prevent these incidents?
– I meet with parents twice a month. I accept 70-80 people, who discuss with me the issues of their children in military bases. I wouldn’t say that people have such a fear. Perhaps your newspaper is most scared. I don’t think so. Parents come to me and ask that their children go serve in the most dangerous positions. Yes, there are such parents too. If we compare with the previous year the murder cases in the army reduced by 40% and death cases by 37%.
– But you cannot hide the protest sit-ins of dozens of parents in front of the government building, President’s office, who already today demanded the resignation of the defense minister. They demand order in the army and complain that they don’t raise their kids to send to the army to be killed.
– I understand that their child died and that they have to protest, complain and demand and our job should be to meet them, talk to them and explain the problems.
– Many parents complain that there are traces of violence on the dead bodies of their children but the military forensic summary reads that they died because of suicide.
– Let’s speak with specific facts so that I can give you correct answers. I am not a criminal medical expert and neither the head of that group of experts. He is the one to answer what he has written and why. I even don’t have his phone number. He is the one that is responsible for his job and you should and ask him. My opinion is that everything must be simple and transparent, and everyone should be punished for any mistakes committed. We have serious problems with professionals. This year the number of soldiers was fewer and we don’t have soldiers to replace officers. Can we do that job in a manner not to let the army suffer as we have to do that anyway? We have to make a choice between those available notwithstanding the level of their professionalism. We have to make a choice between those available notwithstanding the level of their professionalism. You are writing only bad things about the army but I believe that 99% of our army officers are professionals who are ready to sacrifice their lives for their country. This is 100% true. The backbone of the army, i.e. the institute of officers is developed and we have very strong guys. It is not like we are weak but able to protect our country and the enemy cannot do anything. If we did not have an organized army, our enemy would succeed, but they are failing. We have very difficult border defense points surrounded by Azeris from almost all parts but they cannot take those points. I was waiting to see if any newspaper would write a good thing about the army but indeed no one did. It seems they are happy to see such cases happening. When such incidents are happening, you can never imagine what is happening to us. Do you know how many times I have given bodies of soldiers killed by Azeris to their parents, apologized to them and cried with them? After all these if people speak only bad things about the army, t is very difficult to think positive and do a good thing. It is the hobby of the media to write bad things about leaders, about the minister and headquarter chief. You should know who they are and what they have done. The only thing you know about me is that I have had connection with Armenia and I am Armenian. You don’t know that I have served in Belorussia, I was a head of a division, three times I came to Armenia in 1991 and 1992 and said that I was ready to become a soldier of the Armenian army even though I had three kids. I didn’t have anyone here but I came here and went to the borders in 1992-98. Let anybody say that he has been a stronger fighter than me. Let anybody say that I have gone forward behind anybody. The only thing the media has written is that my son has collected money in the army. Do you know that it is not true?
– What did really happen in the headquarter after Vazgen Sargsyan in Ararat region, where your son’s name was connected with some issues relating to Vardan Martirosyan with Rozh nickname, who serves as division head under the control of your son?
– V. Martirosyan was passing exams to enter the academy when that incident happened. He collected 130,000 drams from the officers and bought a computer for the army headquarter. By the way, this computer has been registered on the balance of the army. Next time they collected 150,000 drams to improve the firefighting facilities of the defense points. Each of them paid 15,000 drams. This is documented too. All these things have been done by the headquarter chief, in the absence of V. Martirosyan. This is a habit in the army and in such situation all of us collect money and make a table to organize a gathering. V. Martirosyan paid for such table himself as the officers had not received the salary yet, and as they later learnt that one of their colleagues had bought a notebook with credit they asked him to give that notebook to them to give to their chief as a present for his kind behavior and they committed to pay the monthly payment of 30,000 drams. Newspapers have written that Khachaturov’s son has instructed to take 1,5 million drams credit and give to him. It is a lie. Have you ever seen Khachaturov’s son? Have you ever tried to find out if this guy is able to take money from soldiers? Do you know what kind of person he is?
– Why is his name connected with it then?
– You are asking very difficult question. Two officers were arrested after that incident. When my son, as their commander, asked to explain because they could not have done such thing he was told that it was not his business. After that he resigned in order to be able to protect his team. They were released later. Do you think that they would be set free if they were guilty? Both of them were dismissed from service. My son found that it would not be a right decision to stay in the army. He believes that these two officers were dismissed because of him as he had been the target. It is his decision, he is a colonel and I can’t change his decision.
– Why did you accuse military general prosecutor Gevorg Kostanyan in unfair approach to officers during the meeting on June 23? You said that in order to “judge an officer you must be an officer too.”
– The general prosecutor said that officers must have a dignity. In answer I said that the commanders that were sitting there had dignity and in order to understand officers one must be an officer too. That’s what I said. In answer to my observation the general prosecutor said that he had meant bad officers. The impression was that he meant everyone. Now we are in normal relations and work together. Do you think I have insulted him? Why are you so much curious about my relationship with the general prosecutor?
– According to the law, before drafting soldiers to the army the officers must do some preparation work with them. In what preparations status does a soldier join the army? What do you do for that purpose?
– This work is done by doctors and military commissioners. Currently they are registering and in several days they will tell us what the number of new soldiers will be. After that we will decide what number each of the army units needs and will present this document for the minister’s approval. Soldiers that do not have parents will serve in 100 kilometers distance from the place of their living. It is a rule. In the future we may discuss the possibility of amending the distance and making it up to 200 kilometers.
– Is it possible to control the process and make sure that they do not send these soldiers to the borders and give their place to someone else instead of a favor?
– It can’t happen. Such rumors are disseminated very fast. The president of Armenia has, in his turn, ordered strict control over the process of drafting. They will be punished. It is excluded. Maybe the reason is the fact that people dispute the understandings of a soldier without parents or a soldier without one parent. This law is not applicable on people who have lost one of their parents. The documents of newly recruited soldiers should also include the death certificate or a court’s decision declaring the parents as lost.
– There are also complaints about corruption in the army.
– Corruption is something that goes from the bottom to the top; all the other things are simple robberies and machinations. Certainly there is robbery and machinations in the army and we have been struggling against these things during all times. All those people who have stolen something they will have to return everything back. If such crimes are done on purpose, they are arrested, and if it is a result of negligence they are dismissed from work.
– I also mean corruption during the drafting process. I mean sometimes officials take money from the families of soldiers to send their children to better headquarters.
– I do not want to praise our work but this situation has changed. The process you mean looks like a lottery now. Accordingly, people give promises to the families of soldiers and if it works, they take the money, and if it doesn’t work, they apologize and give the money back. Of course the system fights against this too but it is not the business of the army headquarter chief. This is the responsibility of the military police. It is my honor to organize fair drafting process and if I see somebody playing such games, believe me I will be very strict… I think that the media should also write about the dignity of officers. We should all take care of the dignity of officers. Many officers have been arrested and taken to courts. There must not be arrested or judged officers in the army, but we do not have other officers. Officers are often punished for small things such as slamming or hitting someone’s leg for disciplinary purposes.
– Are they really judged for slamming soldiers?
– Yes, they are sentenced to 1,5-2 years of conditional judgment. This is punishment too. Punished officer is not a good thing. We should make sure that soldiers do what officers tell them to do. Let’s imagine a situation when a commander is 27 years old and his two officers and their 70-80 soldiers must protect their 6-7 kilometers of the border. At night when they go to the defense point they find nobody standing and controlling there. Thus they should do something. Soldiers start to oppose and refuse to do his orders. There are even soldiers that do machinations when they see that officers want to bring them to the order, i.e. they provoke some stories and record it to have accusation against their officers. If soldiers listen to their officers, believe me there will be fewer incidents in the army. We are protecting only soldiers now but have forgotten about officers. I am not saying that those who beat soldiers should not be punished. Murderers and people who beat soldiers should go to prison for sure. But we should think of officers too. Otherwise we will be faced with difficulties in the future. Every day we have the danger of resumption of war. During wars soldiers are lead by their commanders and officers. They must have dignity and must be respected by both the society and soldiers. I have the impression that people don’t like them.
– Are you getting prepared for the military parade on September 21?
– Yes. I am responsible for that and I believe on September 21 your opinion will totally change about the army. There will be nice surprises. Our military parade will surprise the enemy too.
– Will you demonstrate the power of the army?
– Yes. Tomorrow and the day after tomorrow we will be training. Streets will be closed for that purpose and vehicles will pass through those streets.
– How is the situation at the border?
– On Thursday there were 55 cases of firing on part of Azerbaijan, and 4 answers to those shootings on part of Armenia. It is like that almost every day. Their snipers shoot at our points on purpose; maybe they are afraid and at night they shoot anywhere they can without any target. Either they are afraid or they do not have rules and they shoot whenever they like. Maybe they don’t report for every bullet. In our army soldiers report on the use of every bullet.
– When do you think the situation at the border becomes tense? Are there more ceasefire violations during the meetings of the presidents?
– Yes. Every time either before or after such meetings they do provocations; it is their behavior. If the meetings don’t end up in the way they want, they start shooting. I was a commander of border forces in 1992 and I believe that if you give a little chance to the Azeris to shoot they are becoming like bears. But if you hit their mouth with your hand, they step back like rabbits. If they use their snipers to kill one soldier from our army, our answer should be four times stronger. This is how it works with them. And if the war starts again, we will not sit in our places; we will move forward.
– Do you see a danger of war?
– Yes, sure. They are getting prepared for war and are doing it intensively. We are getting prepared too. Let them start. I don’t want a war, but if they start a war, the answer will be tough.