– Approximately two months ago you mentioned that the dialog process had entered into deadlock. Was Serzh Sargsyan’s statement considered deadlock to the suggestion of the ANC to go forward to starting a dialog?
– I don’t rush to say that it is so for sure. Even Sargsyan in his speech tries to leave some room for discussion. But unfortunately I have to admit that the government in Armenia and people in general only recognize force. It is impossible to hold a civilized conversation. We are discussing in the Congress and in the near days it will become clear in the near future what we are going to do or respond. There are logically positive and negative circumstances.
– At any rate, was the mentioned response of S. Sargsyan expected for you?
– Both yes and no. There could be a worse option and Sargsyan might have not responded at all. He didn’t miss lose much by responding. Of course the impression is that he wishes to take into account the existence of the opposition and wishes to interact with us. But nothing clear or exact was brought up. My impression is that Sargsyan is stretching time.
– Does he do this prior to Kazan meeting or he wants to stretch it longer?
– He wasn’t to stretch to the point to say that there is even no time left for by-elections. This is a spark. I see interminable game but we don’t need that.
– In terms of stretching time they also blame Levon Ter-Petrosyan and ANC.
– I communicate with him and he didn’t tell me anything. Wed discussed this matter only two days ago. And there are many talks and demands about the conduct of extraordinary presidential elections. I haven’t heard any other conversations.
– Hasn’t the ANC led the process to deadlock by only highlighting the demand of extraordinary elections in the dialog? The government will hardly accept the suggestion of dialog in that format. Perhaps it’s worth seeking other options for dialog as well.
– The ANC has numerously stated that it would wish to see a process, which would enable the government to take on evolutional reforms and the government is doing so. But the government, starting from the President, only carries the current values. Nobody thinks about tomorrow and I think this will lead to a revolution.
– But revolution is being denied by the ANC.
– It is not true. I am a member of the ANC and I don’t deny that. This government should have been profoundly changed and replaced.
– Don’t you think that the Congress should start a more active struggle? Up until now the impression is that the ANC has tempered its standpoint in order to have the political prisoners released. Doesn’t this objective exist now?
– The Congress should conduct a political struggle. And should ask what the current government has got to do in the current regime and power. It should say when the power will be restored via free and fair elections. People are going through a new disaster every day. It seems that they have helped the agricultural sector by giving them a subsidized credit in the amount of 25 million USD. That money is three times less than what they have collected with the mandatory car insurance. The situation is dire in the agricultural sector. 25% of Ararat valley doesn’t have harvest because of the hail. So should the leader of the country allot 75 million USD from the state budget to cover the car insurance or the damage of agriculture? Only 11,ooo rural economies received this subsidized loan. This is only 5% out of 200,000 farming economies. Is this how you helped the farmers? And this 5% are the government recommended farmers. Moreover there is subsidy in the amount of 4 and 6%. And no one knows who defined this. Have you seen a state, which would help a sector but include select individuals? Have you seen a country, which would conduct a corrupt policy and the Prime Minister of that country would speak about overcoming the corruption risks? The governors, the select departments of the regional municipalities determine themselves who these loans can be allotted to and as a result they make money. In the meantime, the ANC would claim to subsidize the products. Wouldn’t it be right for the Serzh Sargsyan and Tigran Sargsyan and the CB chairman to leave power if they don’t understand what they have to do? Another option would be for Sargsyan to replace these people so we wouldn’t complain and feel insulted. We don’t wish to insult them but we cannot be calm about the foolish things they have done. I have several times told them that I can inform them how they resolve the simplest tasks and challenges.
– Who did you wish to inform?
– I wanted to inform the head of the government, ministers and others. If you are importing 10 tractors who can get those out of 200,000 farming economies? Is that leadership in our country? And do they discuss such matters? We are suggesting them not to lie to people and explain what’s going on. What they are doing is cynicism and a behavior characteristic to Galust Sahakyan.
– Do you find it possible that Serzh Sargsyan will agree to establish delegations and negotiate with the opposition just like the way the ANC proposed? Will you negotiate with Serzh Sargsyan in regard of economic challenges?
– What can I tell him? He doesn’t understand what I’m telling him. He doesn’t have specialization to understand that. We have developed the “100 steps” project. If something is being done in Yerevan the international structures first of all pay attention to that. 1,5 years have passed. Only now they are thinking about taking steps and now it’s not even clear they will do it or not. The whole government in reality bombards the reforms in masks of reforms. They should appoint a relevant person to be able to overcome those challenges.
– Do you think it would be possible to have a more effective government in the tenure of the incumbent President Sargsyan?
– First, I think there is the need of extraordinary presidential elections but I don’t exclude that Sargsyan might understand the need of building a new government. Let me also mention that among the three Presidents of Armenia Sargsyan has the least knowledge and understanding of the economy. He can’t figure it out. In the current conditions when there is no war we have a 30% economic slump. What will we have in the event of war? Does Sargsyan carry responsibility for that?
– It was a global economic crisis.
– The crisis lasted for a year and the average decrease was 1 percent. The US budget increased for 15 per cent in the course of the last three years, and the budget of RA decreased by 30 per cent. Wasn’t there any crisis in the USA? The economic crisis is at T. Sargsyan’s office; address str. Hantrapetutyan 1. T. Sargsyan and RPA couldn’t find better grave-diggers.
– But T. Sargsyan and his government launch reform projects in various spheres, develop programs against corruption and submit drafts. And they encourage everybody to help.
– T. Sargsyan lies, he is cunning.
– There is an opinion, that the deputy ministers did not have any influence on the tax and customs systems which provide the budget incomes. These officials were accountable only to the presidents. There are opinions about 50 percent economic shadow.
– T. Sargsyan should resign as H. Bagratyan did in 1996. However the country was in development process then. The one responsible for is the prime minister, he is the guard of the warehouse and the guard is not in its place. Does the fact that there is going to be theft during the guard’s shift, give the latter the right to sleep during his duty?
– But according to the media the chairman of the state revenue committee Gagik Khachatryan creates problems for the effective activities of the government and T. Sargsyan. There is also an opinion that there is about 50 percent of economic shadow, and that Hovik Abrahamyan aims at becoming prime minister, Robert Kocharyan has the same intention as well.
– If it is not convenient for T. Sargsyan to continue working in these conditions, he is free to resign. And where did you get that information? That may be T. Sargsyan’s intrigues. In my opinion regardless of everything the chairman of the state revenue committee Gagik Khachatryan is much better than the prime minister. I guess that Hovik Abrahamyan is more than right. I repeat again that neither H. Abrahamyan, nor G. Khachatryan, nor T. Sargsyan should be acting in the political arena. I can’t imagine that one can give subsidy of 7 billion AMD loan to selected farming economies. And these activities are not realized by the Ministry of Agriculture. They created a Project Implementation Unit that operates following incomprehensible mechanisms. H. Abrahamyan couldn’t think of something so cunning. Why do you call somebody a reformer and the other I don’t know what. Let Robert Kocharyan be appointed as a prime minister. Robert Kocharyan is not acceptable for me in any way; however he may be more practical, than the one in the government.
– You seem to be very focused on T. Sargsyan.
– It is because of the fact that it is impossible to perceive what and why these people do on day-to-day basis. In the banking system the average salary is four times higher. I suppose the salary of the head of media service of the Central Bank is 20 times more than yours. Why is it so? It is accounted for by the fact that the taxing level there is low. In other countries the taxing level in the banking system is higher and the government is not able to give any tax breaks. They say that the banking system is developed. At first it is not developed, second they pay ten times higher salaries and there is now taxing there. If the income tax in the banking system is supposed to be 3 times more in comparison with social economy, the bank realizes money speculation.
– What is your evaluation of the incumbent government, which is going to participate in the upcoming elections and of the government activities in general?
– This government is the worst in the history of the independent Republic of Armenia. Of course, in case we consider it for a short period of time, there were worse governments, when the fall was greater. For example, during the tenure of Khosrov Harutyunyan or Vazgen Manukyan as prime ministers. Those were the periods of economic slump. This in fact is the fourth government of this type. We had 11 governments, 4 of which “contributed to” the economic decrease. As soon as S. Sargsyan became president he announced that he will double the GDP. During his tenure the GDP calculated in Armenian drams was reduced almost by 10% and according to the information of international organizations, calculated in US dollars it was reduced by 30%. He also promised to double the budget, however from three billion the budget was reduced to 2,2 billion dollars. From this prospective this is the second worst government. For the last the government failed so much and there was so much slump during the tenure of Khosrov Harutyunyan. According to the official information, the real incomes have not grown. These people think that the fact that they have borrowed money and paid salaries and pensions is an achievement. If we compare the prices, the export was reduced from 1,7 billion to 1 billion during the last three years. The foreign debt was almost doubled from 2 to 4 billion. This does not include the guarantees because it is not registered. T.Sargsyan has established an institute of guarantees and the society does not know anything about that. The sector of agriculture is in poor conditions. The economy continues being centralized and this process has stopped during the past months as there is nothing to centralize anymore. Monopolists do not want additional businesses anymore because they are taking their capital out of the country. The big capital is done already and they are not interested in new businesses in Armenia.
– You mentioned 4 prime-ministers who failed and they worked during the tenure of the first and third presidents. Was this due to the bad work of prime-ministers or the presidents had their “contribution” as well?
– I did not say that; I am not going to compare 1990-92 with 2011. At that time there were objective reasons; there was a war, but there was growth too. However, in this peace period we have the biggest slump compared to those three periods. In 90s there was such degradation everywhere, but now it is in Armenia only.