Famous Turkish intelligentsia representatives – critic, translator, professor of Bilgi University, publicist of Taraf and Radical newspapers Murat Belge and professor of Sabanj University of Turkey, journalist of Taraf newspaper, Professor Halil Berktay were recently in Armenia. The historians were here with the invitation of the Democracy School and the Armenian branch of Helsinki Civil Assembly. Talking with them was very interesting despite the fact that at the end of the conversation I felt a little discomfort. It is when I asked already stood who they know from the Armenian intelligentsia (“Couldn’t wait, ha?” yelled Anahit Bayandur, who was present at our conversation). By supplementing each other my interviewees were giving names, such as Grigor Lusavorich, Mesrop Mashtots, Martiros Saryan, Ayvasovsky, Parajanov, Saroyan, Aram Khachatryan, Komitas, Yekmalyan. “Tigran Petrosyan was a fantastic chess player,” added Helil Berktay. “Zapel Yesayan,” suddenly remembered Murat Belge. For example, I didn’t know a name of a Turkish intelligentsia representative besides Pamuk. And the names that the Turks gave, you should agree that not all Armenians know. As a beginning of the conversation I reminded them of the opinion expressed by former President Robert Kocharyan, who claimed that Armenians and Turks are genetically incompatible.
Halil Berktay – Genetic incompatibility? I don’t think so. This can be characterized as a silly racist idea. A survey was conducted, during which it was found out that Armenians, Greeks and Turks have a common genetic line. If we try to speak about chromosomes and genes then Armenians are the closest to the modern Turks. When the results of this survey were publicized in Turkey the Turkish radicals became full with fury. It turns out that the Turkish radicals and Kocharyan are at the same level.
L.A. – However, despite your genetic similarity the rapprochement between Turkey and Armenia is obviously not working. Do you think this wish is not sincere or the two sides are not working literately?
Murat Belge – The problem is the historic past. It seems that the Turkish government and the Turkish parties are ready to discuss the Armenian issue but indeed all our governments will have really hard time speaking openly about the genocide. That is the reason why this issue is being constantly delayed. There is tolerance; they are trying to discuss the issue openly, however the psychological barrier is evident. This government wants more to come to an agreement than the previous ones. Let us take into account that Turkey has a big issue and that is its responsibility to Azerbaijan. Armenia is not a big country but it has a responsibility to Karabakh. Whenever it seems that Armenia and Turkey are close to common solution the factor of Azerbaijan pops out.
L.A. – The dialog doesn’t work at the level of governments. In your opinion, at what stage is the dialog of the two societies?
Murat Belge – The attitude of the two societies is better than the attitude of the governments. Let us take into account that Turkey is a big country and the Turkish society is multilayered and large. For 30 years the government had a negative attitude to Armenians. We cannot say that everybody accepts Armenians similarly. There are radicals and less radical people. In my opinion, if the governments came to any conclusion I don’t think there would be any insurgence on part of the societies.
L. A. – Ultimately the highest value is life. Whatever hinders the favorable and good life must be subordinated. Isn’t it the function of the intelligentsia to increase the good thinking of people so that the process would be less painful and more realistic and the historic evaluation would be more objective?
Halil Berktay – I think that it is very important that the society, NGOs and governmental organizations should apply whatever means they got in hand to bring the two societies into contact because indifference and scorn are the worst enemies in this process. I, as a representative of intelligentsia, am very active. I write, criticize our government. I say that we shouldn’t turn the two nations into enemies to each other. But we should try our best to meet our counterparts in Armenia, think about projects maybe for young people, such as summer camps and seminars, which would link the two peoples. Maybe we could organize workshops for political scientists. We should meet and perhaps speak as conscious and simple people. Indifference causes stereotypes and barriers. And the direct communication and direct dialog causes humanism.
L. A. – Will the time after the genocide (soon 100th anniversary will be commemorated) to change the approaches of the parties regarding the understanding of the parties?
Murat Belge – I don’t think so. I don’t think the time solves all the issues. If there is a problem then everything should be done to resolve it. If you let time pass then the vector of areas is being expanded and becoming more complicated. There is little difference between a political issue and tumor. When you let them go they both stretch and deepen. This is the evidence of what I have been saying. If this issue had been discussed in 1925 it would have resolved more easily than when it started in 1995. I would like to say a few words about representatives of intelligentsia. After the French revolution it seems that we are among the nationalistic states. The state gives education to its citizens. A part of them become intelligentsia representatives. And the state also wishes that these people become its microphones. The impression is that the state says I turned you into an intelligentsia representative now you need to return the favor. It shouldn’t be like this. The easiest thing in the world is to be a patriot. You are born on certain land, in a certain country; you know the language, feel your people and feel good. If you consider yourself intelligentsia then you should consider yourself a patriot of some other country as well. As a Turk I am a patriot of Armenia, Greece and Bulgaria. I should criticize my government.
L. A. – Have you seen people like you in Armenia; people, who’d be willing to criticize their government and become patriots of other states?
Halil Berktay – I can say that I know the right people. I know Turkey, I know the radicals. I have even personally communicated with them. But these are the personal intelligentsia representatives of the government. And they are not quite true. Every country needs criticism. And who else can show to the government their mistakes if not the intelligentsia representatives?
L. A. – you have mentioned that the past impedes the dialog between the Turks and Armenians and that the current governments are more inclined to resolve the issue than the previous ones. How realistic is that the Turkish government will recognize the genocide?
Halil Berktay – During the past 10 years there is a big progress. Before 2000 genocide was like a taboo for the Turks. Only a few professors are trying to speak about that. In 2000 in Chicago a big discussion was initiated between the Turkish and Armenian professors. At that time many Armenian intelligentsia representatives found it impossible to sit around the same table with the Turks. And due to this negative approach many Armenian intelligentsia representatives have started to boycott and didn’t participate in the discussion. In October 2000 I was the first Turk that withstood the society and spoke to this issue. A big noise was created. The radicals have been trying to hush me, I have been receiving over 100-150 threat calls a day. They were threatening to fire me. My university stayed at its height. I continued writing. After that some other people also started to speak. In Armenia there is a Turkish fascist organization – the Turkish forum, which was publishing the names of those papers, which were endangering the Turkish sovereignty and were considered the enemies of Turkey. At the beginning there were five names, then 10-15 and then the number reached 50. That’s when I quit this unthankful work. In 2005 a conference took place in Istanbul, during which they discussed the events of 1915. There were 50-60 historians, sociologists, journalists. There were over 700 people in the hall for two days. I would say that was earthquake of intelligentsia in Turkey. During the past 5 years the Armenian society should have felt that the Turkish society has changed its behavior to the Armenian one. Let us remember millions of people after the death of Hrant Dink. They were saying, “We are Armenians, We are Dink.” This wouldn’t be possible ten years ago. Currently the Turkish government is in a quite difficult state. They know the truth about 1915 and when they deny the genocide of 1915 it is for internal consumption. No one believes them outside Turkey. The Turkish government has become the hostage of its lie. It is difficult to tell the society, “You know, what we have been saying for 60 years is not true.” If it continues like this during the next 5 years something will be changed. Perhaps it may not be in a direct text, for example, “we committed the genocide.” Maybe some other angles can be used.