– How do you interpret the statement of the foreign affairs minister Ahmed Davudoglu regarding the Armenian-Turkish protocols, according to which “not in the long run, perhaps within months and even weeks there will be consent to this issue”?
– Davudoglu’s statement was quite prompt and implied two important matters. First of all he repeated what Turkey had been saying in the past, according to which if need they will quickly ratify the protocols. But if a war starts they will close the border again. It means that he has clearly showed that the opening of the border is connected with the NKR conflict. Secondly, it is not beneficial for Turkey to kill the protocols because due to those he has attained serious privileges, has received key prerequisites to bring up its preconditions. It already has two of those preconditions – on the recognition of the border and the genocide recognition obstacles. And it has the opportunity to mingle in the NKR conflict resolution and therefore it wouldn’t wish to lose this influence. If you remember after the meetings in the US Turkey has expressed an opinion that we had said that even if the protocols were not connected with the NKR conflict then we all had a problem in terms of providing peace and stability in the region. And there can be no peace in the region as long as the NKR conflict is not resolved. Thus, we should work in the direction of the NKR conflict resolution. If this border is going to be open and the Armenia-Azerbaijan border remains closed it means that the region is not peaceful and stable yet. So the other border should be opened as well and Turkey already speaks about this. And the opening of the border stems from the interests of the mediating states as well because they won’t be surfeited only by the opening of the border. They need that all the borders are open to ensure that all the communication means work for the sake of the successful implementation of their projects. Turkey best uses and benefits from this goal of the mediating countries.
– What consequence will the suspension of the protocols have on the NKR negotiations?
– There was no need to suspend. It was necessary to deflect from the process so that Turkey wouldn’t stand any chance to interfere in the NKR conflict resolution process. But Turkey has entered the process because we have enabled it to do so because of the protocols. And in order not to finally harm the NKR conflict resolution we should recall the protocols. If the protocols are retained in the semi-dead state they will still damage the process.
– The deputy foreign affairs minister of Azerbaijan Araz Azimov stated that the border could have opened after the removal of the Armenian troops from the 5 territories and Lachin and Kelbajar. And Armenia asks for some time for that. Novruz Mamedov stated that the time, which Armenia has asked for resolution of the NKR conflict, has run out months ago. Is Armenia really in such a bad shape?
– I think that Armenia is facing a very serious issue. And what we are offering pursues a goal to take out Armenia of this tough situation. Our viewpoints are based on the reality that Turkey will never recede to foreign pressure and will never refuse its strategic interests. Let them remember the past 100 years to see whether Turkey has ever refused its strategic interests. Let us not try to view Turkey the way we want to. Secondly, the Turkish-Azerbaijani tandem is quite serious and there is no need to fond controversy between the two nations. A lot more can be understood from the statements of Azerbaijan. Quite recently they have started to state at the highest levels that they were not interfering in the Armenian-Turkish process. This is no accident. They both work in a preliminarily agreed manner. The Turkish officials go to Baku every day to guarantee them that they are brother states. They ensure that the resolution of the conflict is no less important for Turkey. We know what we are doing. You make the statements the way so those wouldn’t hurdle the process. They have explained them that don’t take steps, which would complicate the process. They said that they had well planned the process. The Turkish diplomacy is so much more experienced and efficient. Turkey has better opportunities than Armenia and Azerbaijan taken together. Due to the protocols Turkey today has a legitimate right to interfere in the NKR conflict. There would be no place that Turkey would avoid speaking about the NKR. And this has created impression in the whole world. It turns out that Turkey is the most interested, which can drastically affect the NKR conflict resolution process. It is no accident that they are saying that they have discovered the possible assault on the NKR. So you see what a big role Turkey plays now by not allowing Azerbaijan to attack the NKR. We Armenians are very naïve by thinking that Turkey has changed. It hasn’t changed.
– And if the foreign policy state of Armenia is in such a bad state and the Armenian authorities are conducting a wrong policy then why are you demanding only the resignation of the RA foreign affairs minister?
– Our policy of this year has showed us being right. During this year we have reached serious progress. Our “NO” campaign, where we included realistic requirements, we built our policy in the ideology on not against but for the sake of something. They want it or not but all the sides should agree with that fact. Indeed this even more alerted the government. We don’t need to create artificial controversies. It will ban our main goal, which is to use every channel and means to fail the regulation of relations based on the protocols because it harms Armenia. If the government refuses its approaches we will welcome them. But if they don’t we don’t have much left to do but to try to get rid of what the package, which the government has put on the shoulders of these people. If the protocols become legally valid then we need to find ways to consider them invalid and in the political aspect it would mean change of government. But indeed the change of government doesn’t only mean Armenia-Turkey relations. Our country has serious democratic and social-economic issues and we have serious contradictions with the government in this regard.
– All these issues existed during the years when the ARF was part of the governing coalition. Why were you not criticizing so sharply back then?
– Yes, we have had all these issues on our agenda back in the day. We didn’t have full solution on these issues but certain progress and positive shifting was caused due to the ARF efforts. We were simply a part of the government and not the government. If we were the government we would have implemented the whole platform ourselves. We could have maximum retained the national-state direction. And this is what has made us get along with many things. But when this line got distracted it was absolutely meaningless for us to stay in the government.
– The fact of having common ideas with the former government and the criticism addressed to the current government gives people grounds that the ARF is supporting the return of Robert Kocharyan into politics.
– We are first trying to pave a road for the Armenian people. We are responsible for our 120 year history. For some period there were the communists, then the ANM, Robert Kocharyan but our approaches haven’t changed. We are opening a road for us.
– Which of the governments of the independent Armenia matched with the approaches of the ARF?
– If we compare these three presidents then Kocharyan’s foreign policy course best matched with ours but we also had criticism to internal issues.
– In the conditions of the indifference of the Armenian delegation the PACE chairman was elected Movlut Chavushoglu, who conducts an evident pro-Turkish policy. It announces about the establishment of a subcommittee on the NKR and he should be the chair of this commission. How can the RA withstand these processes?
– We were the first that criticized the adoption of the famous resolution 1416 of Atkinson, which was not very favorable for the NKR. We have always said that our participation in the adoption of this document was wrong. We have said that as long as the NKR doesn’t participate in the negotiation process we should have boycotted this participation. We should have let them adopt the resolution without us. The creation of the ad hoc stemmed from this resolution. The Azerbaijani and Chavushoglu are mentioning this resolution. As long as this document hasn’t lost its legal power it will always cause us harm. If we are against resolution 1416 then we should be against any step stemming from that. Back in the day Vladimir Kazimirov has quite well assessed this document, according to whom the first thing that the international structure should do is to pursue the policy of no harm to the process. For us it is absolutely unacceptable that this ad hoc works with the logic dictated of the Azerbaijanis not to mention to let it be headed by Chavushoglu. We should apply the strictest methods of resistance. Certain trilateral consultations took place in the PACE. Then they decided to continue the consultations by including the opposition as well. I didn’t have an opportunity to participate in those. But once I have a chance like that I will immediately present my objections. On our end the main condition should be the fact that if you want to work ad hoc commissions then the NKR must have a full representation there.