“Super powers pressuring on Armenia via Azerbaijan”

07/05/2010 Armine AVETYAN

– Mr. Zohrabyan, as a result of the suspension of the Armenian-Turkish process and the protocols the super states that were engaged and interested in this process have realized that without the regulation of the NKR conflict our relations with Turkey will not be improved. Don’t you think that this implies certain risks regarding the resolution of the NKR conflict and the pressures on Armenia will become stronger?

– I partially agree with your question. At this moment we don’t feel any pressure and we act very calm. We still have the status quo but we are negotiating to move the issue from the place. Turkey as well as Azerbaijan with the help of Turkey brought up preconditions. And till now they are making militaristic statements and are trying to intimidate us. They are trying to scare us by saying that you are a small country and that they’ll bomb us. This is not just a threat and Aliyev is not a child to threaten every day. The war is already declared but no major actions are undertaken. In the borderline zone they fire, people are being killed but they don’t move forward. They are showing that the cease fire is comparably interrupted. This is a pressure. It doesn’t necessary have to be declared by some super power, which would be a shame. They are saying this with the lips of Azerbaijan by warning that they might bomb us. And we oppose this by saying that we don’t want to be bombed but Armenia has its own means of responding to that.

– Doesn’t the suspension of the protocols mean that the soccer diplomacy or the initiative policy didn’t justify itself?

– We shouldn’t forget that at the time of signing the protocols we had counties that were guaranteeing the success of the process. Those were the US, EU and Russia. They should ask themselves why Turkey had brought up preconditions if it was agreed to go through the process without preconditions. And indeed it was Turkey that was considered immoral with its behavior. Moreover, we have left some space for future negotiations. In politics morality is measured by the pursuit of commitments. Turkey acted amorally with the negotiating countries. That is the reason why there would be a tougher pressure on Turkey.

– Thus, as opposed to the RPA statements this process was not the initiative policy of Serzh Sargsyan. Were these negotiations obliged from the outside?

– I wouldn’t like to use the verb “obliged.” Armenia with Russia is a member of the Collective Security Pact and they have a joint military support contract. And it wouldn’t be right to start relations with Turkey without agreeing with Russia especially by taking account the fact that Turkey has been at wars with Russia as well. If a war breaks up, Russia will have to support us. In that case how could we not consult with Russia? Besides that Turkey is a NATO member. We know that the NATO and the Collective Security Pact do not cooperate very well. And they both pursue their interests in the region. Therefore, there is nothing here to be surprised about. Sargsyan should have consulted with Moscow. Russia also had economic and strategic interests in Armenia. The EU wants to open the border because it is discussing the issue of making Turkey an EU state. This path is necessary for the US as well in regard of the strategic importance.

– Which of the countries of the region do the interests of the mentioned three super states match with? Azerbaijan has oil and gas. Turkey has a powerful economy and routes. Armenia in this regard has pretty much nothing.

– The fact that Armenia doesn’t have anything makes us seek ways of cooperation so that we would have something. Because really there are states in the region with powerful resources.

– But wouldn’t it be right if the RA government developed the internal economy of the country by resolving their internal issues prior to establishing relations with these countries? As the RA Prime Minister states we should strengthen social justice, fight with oligopolies and bring the big businesses into the tax field.

– At any rate we should brag too much with our economy because we are a 19-year-old independent state and nothing was left from the ruined soviet state. One part of it was stolen by the former ones and the rest of the part by the current ones. One part of it was sold as scrap metal. The economy has started to develop step by step no matter how much I wouldn’t wish top remember Robert Kocharyan’s tenure as a President at that time we had Andranik Margaryan as the Prime Minister. And this should have development every year during the tenure of all governments. The most important thing is the wish to do so. I don’t know to what extent they succeed. We need multilateral processes for the development of the economy. If the issues are solved we should cooperate with the Turks, Azerbaijanis and the rest of the world. We should have a multi-layer cooperation with the neighboring states and the Diaspora. If certain territory is given to the 7 million people Armenian Diaspora it will be a powerful state because it has a capital of several hundred billions. It seems that we invested a lot of efforts in this process of Turkey-Armenia rapprochement and we didn’t cede to the Turkish deviousness. And if we proceeded in the negotiations without the decision of the Constitutional Court perhaps we should have forgotten forever the issue of the western Armenia and the Kars Treaty could have been recognized. The Kars Treaty is not ratified by Armenia and continues to be an open issue.

– Besides the NKR Turkey is also showing interest to Nakhichevan. Recently statements were made that Turkey is the guarantor of Nakhichevan and the threats of the security threats of Nakhichevan are coming from Armenia.

– The Constitutional Court decision submerged the ratification of the Kars Treaty on part of Armenia. And the Turks thought that if Armenia doesn’t wish to ratify it then there is a threat because the authority given to Nakhichevan in 1921 is not legal granted by the Kars Treaty. But in this case they don’t think that the RA or the guarantor state of the RA could have brought up this issue. According to the Kars Treaty Russia is the guarantor of Nakhichevan. During the Russian President Dmitry Medvedev’s upcoming visit to Turkey among various issues the status of Nakhichevan will also be discussed. It seems that there is nothing to split here. It is strange that Turkey is saying that it should start a military cooperation with Nakhichevan and Azerbaijan. It means that these two are presented separately. By this they are burning their cards by which Nakhichevan is not legally within Azerbaijan. The Kars Treaty is not legal and may work in the counter direction because of the absence of the ratification seal of Armenia.