Yesterday “168 hours” weekly went to the Kosh criminal prosecution
institution in order to get acquainted with the amendments made in the
court. There we met with Armen Sargsyan who agreed to give an
interview. Let’s not forget to mention that Armen Sargsyan will turn 42
years old on October 25, and just two days after that marks the 5th
year since the October 27 shootings.
“168 hours” weekly: “October 27 marks the 5th anniversary of the
October 27 events, however, you have never made any public speeches
about what happened. I know that Vazgen Sargsyan was very close with
you. What can you tell us about him?”
Armen Sargsyan: “What can I say about Vazgen? I can only pray for him.
Since my childhood days, I have always looked up to him…. Vazgen was
just himself and he did not let the political parties turn so immoral.
Vazgen had more close ties with my son Karlen. Vazgen has always loved
me as a child. My son was a substitute for him in the past couple of
years. Until the shootings, Vazgen was talking to me man to man. We
have had many personal conversations with each other and he has
informed me of who is who from the political figures. I know in detail
what he thought about each of the people surrounding him. I can only
say that Vazgen was a great person, he was like a candle that melts. He
melted himself and gave light to others…To be honest, I really can’t
talk about Vazgen. Whenever they ask me to talk about him, I just say
that he was a great human being. What is there to say? I am in jail
now, I am sitting here for no reason. How can I talk in a jailhouse?
“168 hours”: You and Vazgen are very much alike physically. They say that you two also have the same characters. Is that true?
Armen Sargsyan: “I do not want to say anything about myself, but I can
say that we are very much alike. The people who can tell you exactly
are the people who know me and Vazgen. If we are alike physically and
many people confuse us, then that means that our characters match too.
Many might think that I am the clone of Vazgen when they see me. If you
want, I can talk about Aram for months (he refers to Aram
Sargsyan-L.S.), but I can not find the right words for describing
Vazgen. Aram can talk about him, but I can’t. I have put in a lot of
effort for the independence of Armenia during the beginning and I have
had contact with many political figures-both present and former.
However, Aram has not had that contact. I used to see, learn,
understand and listen while having conversations with people. It was
Vazgen who was giving me orders most of the time. I have met with both
the first and second presidents of the Republic of Armenia. Both
presidents love me and respect me. Of course, that is mutual. I had the
opportunity to have contact with them thanks to Vazgen. Vazgen was the
one organizing events where we could all meet.
“168 hours”: Have you changed your attitude towards them now?
Armen Sargsyan: “I have sent a letter to Robert Kocharyan from my
isolation cell and he has responded to my letter. He has sent someone
to check up on me and see how I am doing. I think that the President
has not been informed of what really happened, about the whole case. If
he had known the truth, he wouldn’t have done what he did. But the
people providing him with the information just tell lies. They say that
Armen was responsible for the shootings and the President believes it.
But Armen did not do it. The President has spent time with Armen at his
house, in the forests, out of town and he knows me well enough. Aside
from everything else, I am Vazgen’s brother. How could I be capable of
doing such a thing? On October 29, 1999, I had a personal conversation
with Robert Kocharyan. He told me that there would come a time when he
would prove to me that he was Vazgen’s best friend.
“168 hours”: And did he?
Armen Sargsyan: “I think there will come a time when he will convince
me that he is Vazgen’s best friend. I believe that. I am a believer,
just like Vazgen. I believe that if he has the correct data, then he
will make the right decision.
“168 hours”: But the President must have the desire to get the right information for him to get it.
Armen Sargsyan: “He trusts the people closest to him, and those people
who give him information are forming a blockade so that the President
does not receive information from other sources. There are always many
people forming the blockade. Vazgen was also surrounded by a blockade.
It was like that when Aram was Prime Minister. They had even forbidden
me to see or talk with Aram. Can you imagine that? I know how
everything works, so it is certain that Robert Kocharyan is in some
kind of blockade. That is why I point out the fact that he was not
informed of all the details. I am his friend’s brother, so he could not
treat me like that. He told the courts to solve the case lawfully, but
the reason for my condemnation did not get revealed in all three court
instances. The so-called friendly environment turns everyone into a
monster, as they did with Vazgen. I know one thing for sure. Robert
Kocharyan has told some of his friends that if they want to go visit
Armen in his isolation cell, then they can go and they shouldn’t blame
him for not letting them go. So, nobody should point fingers at
Kocharyan for not being able to come to my cell. I do not want to cause
any trouble for anyone. I am certain that Robert Kocharyan wants what’s
best for me. I have not talked about nor expressed myself about the
events of “October 27”. I have differing opinions. The President did
not order for me to be here. Spreading such rumors also adds salt to
the wound. They want to destroy my relationship with Kocharyan. We are
all one people, we can not only see all the bad in the world. My dear
friend, losing a relative is easy-getting one is hard. I don’t want to
lose Vazgen’s friends. Vazgen represents holiness for me. The only
thing that I am upset about is that I am sitting here for no reason and
not with my children as they are growing up. Many people say that they
want to come see me, but they are afraid of what others will think of
them. Why are they turning that man into a bad person by not coming to
see me? There are many people who come visit me, and I am happy that I
at least get to see my children often. I simply feel sorry for people
who stay in these cells. One can not live like that. How will that
person look into the eyes of his child? There is someone that I know
and I do not wish to state his name, who told me that I was his elder
son and that I had to take care of his children if he died. I told him
that it was no problem. I have been in the cell for two years but he
has not even called my wife to ask how I am doing. It’s a good thing
that there are few people like that in my life. I watch television and
see people go to Yerablur (cemetery) and bow their heads in memory of
Vazgen….I ask myself: “I wonder what crosses one’s mind when he
reflects upon what happened to the country after the death of Vazgen
and how his family lives each day. Do my parents deserve this? One of
their children got buried into the ground, the other is sentenced to 15
years in jail and they don’t know whether the buried will come out of
the ground or if the other son will be released from jail.”
“168 hours”: So, you and Aram Sargsyan differ in opinions. Do you have debates when you meet each other?
Armen Sargsyan: “Aram and I never talk about politics. Aram changes the
subject because he does not want to hear my opinion. Vazgen was like
that too. Vazgen used to say that politics is immoral and that we
should all do our own job. Aram does the same thing. At the present, I
have no intentions of going into politics, but I think that I have many
things to do. I have a full potential of transferring information to
society. I have never made any negative remarks or made promises and
not kept them. I think that now, more than ever, people need to be pure
of heart. The people need me because I have to finish what Vazgen left
behind. After getting out of prison, I will decide whether or not going
into politics is right or wrong. Imprisonment has helped me out a lot
because I have gotten a chance to think, analyze and read. I did not
learn so many things forty years ago as I did now. Vazgen and I are a
lot alike in destinies too. We have two mothers and fathers, did you
know that? My uncle Karlen was having touble with having a child from
his wife. So, my father Zaven decided to give his first child Vazgen to
them. Vazgen lived with them for a year and a half. But then my uncle
noticed that my mother Greta was unhappy without her child. He told my
father to come and take Vazgen home, reasoning that it was hard on the
mother to be away from her son. When they came to take Vazgen home, he
went under the bed and begged not to go. They took him anyhow. My
father promised to give his next child. The second was Aram, but my
parents could not give him to my uncle since Aram had been breastfed
too long. Uncle Karlen and his wife were okay with that and said that
the third one would be theirs. I am the third child and I was breastfed
too long also. But my parents had already taken me to Uncle Karlen’s
house and my mother breastfed me there. After a couple of years I
started attending school. One day, while coming home from school, an
old man called to me and asked “Does your father still drive a “Volga”?
I told him that my uncle drives a “Volga” and my dad drives a
motorcycle. He said to me: “Your father’s name is Zaven, right?” I did
not tell anyone about this encounter. I just kept it to myself.
Aram and Vazgen were very malicious kids. They used to hug me and give
me big kisses all the time….I would hate that and scream “Save me Mrs.
Greta….!” But no matter what, Vazgen still remained my uncle’s son. I
don’t want to state the similarities between me and Vazgen because I
don’t want to boast myself or claim that I am the second Vazgen. But we
both have many things in common. I have a lot to learn from Vazgen.
Vazgen had the chance to show himself to society and people got to know
him better. I did not have that chance.”
“168 hours”: “After the events of October 27, many people are trying to keep you away from politics. Is that true?”
Armen Sargsyan: “I was not even getting ready to go into politics at a
time like that. There have been many offers and I could have had high
ranks, but I did not want to because I was not ready for that. It is
not worth taking that step if you know that you can not do a good job.
I, for one, have to either do a good job or not do it at all. At the
time I was in grief and if I went for it, I am sure that I would be
looked at differently.”
“168 hours”: I know that you were against appointing Aram Sargsyan as Prime Minister. Why?
Armen Sargsyan: “I was against that from the start. In the end, my
mother and I conformed to the situation because they were telling us
that if there was no Prime Minister from our family, then there would
be a civil war and many would die. We did not want that to happen.
Besides that, Aram was an adult and he was making decisions for
himself. It was obvious that Aram was in a lot of stress during that
time. He had just lost his older brother and it was not easy to take
the seat of his brother. Aside from that, Aram was very sincere and was
not ready for taking that office. Aram’s sincerity made him lose his
job. But now Aram has changed a lot, he has progressed but he still has
one flaw: he talks openly about everything. He easily believes
everyone.
“168 hours”: You also believe in people.
Armen Sargsyan: “I do not believe in things that may cause harm to my
people and homeland. I have thought about many things in my isolation
cell, including the people who I have believed in the past. I am not
saying a lot out loud. I analyze everything. Living the good life also
has its standards. One can not live by killing someone else, or eat
others up like monsters. The sad thing though is that you connect all
of this with your close friends whom you have helped but those same
people want to get rid of your family too. I really feel bad about
that. I want my children to get a good education, live a good life and
become good people in the world. They can decide for themselves what
they want to become in the future. The important thing is for them to
be somebody. Vazgen had told my son Karlen when he was 10 years old,
that he would have a serious conversation with him when he was 15
years-old. Recently, my son turned 15, but Vazgen wasn’t here and there
was no serious conversation. Karlen is the one most affected by all of
this. He knew that his uncle’s friends are big, strong people and that
they don’t help their friend. He does not want to come to terms with
the fact that friendship is like that sometimes. He refuses to believe
that.
“168 hours”: Did at least Manvel Grigoryan come visit you?
Armen Sargsyan: “He has not come but he asks his friends how I am doing. I presume he is very busy and he has no free time.
P.S. Read about Armen Sargsyan’s opinions about returning the seized lands in our next edition.