– Is the crisis in Ukraine over and what do you think is the reason for that?
-The crisis in Ukraine is still in progress at the highest political levels. Of course, the crisis is not out in the open; after all, there is a government, ministers but they are not vigilant and don’t know how to stabilize everything. Everyone is waiting for the upcoming parliamentary elections in March of next year. Ukraine is going to become a parliamentary country and the one who will have the power over the majority of the members will be the rightful leader of the country. That is why Ukraine is considered to have a transitional government, it is not long-range. As a result of the revolution, Ukraine is currently in an unstable condition. This is characteristic to all revolutions and it was the same scenario in France, England and during the October Revolution. All we have to do is conduct historical analysis because we see the same phenomena as a result of all revolutions and history tends to repeat itself-the split of the winning side, going out at each other, conflicts based on interests….this is all natural. I must say that populism hurts the country. When you come to power with the help of populism and try to fulfill your populist yet not realistic promises, you face many difficulties and later on disappointments. Today, unfortunately, inflation has risen by 15% and prices are higher. When a country is unstable, the people don’t’ really believe the politics and the projects being implemented. There are less investments being made in the country because the political figures were able to scare investors away. The investors who could implement projects with a promising future must wait for the elections so that they can make investments in a stable country.
-You were in Ukraine during the “Orange revolution”. What can you say about Armenia? Will we expect a revolution any time soon?
– I don’t see the prerequisites for that in Armenia. There are gaps, projects which haven’t been implemented, errors are being made, but they are not enough to be considered prerequisites for a revolution. We saw that in the beginning of the 1990s; we saw how it started and ended and the people realized that the country’s stability is a big guarantee for development. When the country is stable, banks function normally, money circulation is stabilized, and more investments are made. If all goes according to the rules, the people can’t carry out projects and do construction. I’m not talking about the kind of stability where the country is in a bad situation, there is slavery and we must maintain the stability. No. I had not been in Armenia for half a year and I can see many changes. There has never been this much construction going on since Armenia’s independence. Projects that had been left in the past are being implemented and our reputation in the world is pretty high. Of course, the people always strive for more. Some things do annoy me, such as the impression I get when I see Eastern style markets on sidewalks. We have to try to raise the level of discipline and education of people. On the other hand, if we compare this with Ukraine, I must say that the people living in the period of Kuchma were sick and tired of having one or two families taking over the entire economy of the country. Both countries are on different levels. Unfortunately, Armenia is a small country-monopoly and information spread fast. I think that we must improve conditions. I mean, we should bring the new without destroying what we have from the past, make new constructions…we must widen contacts with other countries because I feel that Armenia has limited information about the world.
– Don’t you think that the Armenian people are also sick and tired of the regime?
– I consider that natural because people around the world in general complain about many things-the Euro has gone up in one country, while somewhere else a family can not take care of its expenses, in another country stores and restaurants close down. But the thing that the Armenian people have understood is that the country will progress by putting in an effort every day. Forgive me, but I don’t see the charismatic oppositionist leader who will be able to place himself above the rest, who will have the right mentality, who will be wise and unselfish, who will place a large contrast between the present day authorities and whom the people will want to see as leader. I must say that being an oppositionist is easy in that criticizing is very easy whereas building on those criticisms is hard. We must be able to understand that the country is not built by only stating the negative sides. We must also be optimistic and work every day. The country that has a serious and judicious opposition, which proposes new projects, states opinions and suggestions is considered to be rich. One who thinks that he is the smartest of them all is naïve. I am not for a revolutionary opposition, but rather a structural one. The opposition should prove that it is a leader through its mentality and projects and that it is better than the authorities. Otherwise, criticism and speeches about revolution mean nothing. Prove that you are good. If I were an oppositionist, I would simply tell the people how I see my Armenia, my city and how I plan on solving the problems. And all this without offending anyone.
– Basically, you don’t’ think that the opposition is right when it accuses the authorities for making amendments to the constitution when they have violated the laws themselves?
– It is clear that the constitutional amendments are more democratic than the existing one. But unfortunately, many people like to stereotype. They say “no” to the amendments without even reading and knowing about it. Let the opposition present its suggestions and state which article to change and prove that it needs to be changed. Please do.
-The opposition did not take part in the discussions regarding the contents of the constitution, claiming that…
– Whatever you say is going to sound weak. They did not participate because they could not. Let them sit there and point out the clause that leads us towards totalitarianism and we will suggest something else instead. If they want to have a good constitution, they must show support.
– However, the opposition claims that if they take part in the discussions for the constitution contents, they will be legitimizing the many violations made by Robert Kocharyan.
– I don’t consider that a serious argument. It is possible. I am not defending anyone. I am simply saying what I think. We are strictly talking about the constitution; as for the violations, that is a different story. They should be accusing the authorities for the violations and not go against the constitutional amendments. The Constitution is our supreme law and we must all try out best to make it more democratic.
– European structures were claiming that the environment must be stable during the referendum. Artur Baghdasaryan spent a lot of time leading negotiations with National Assembly oppositionists so that they would stop the boycott, however, all in vain. Current day opposition and the opposition back when you were president of the National Assembly is the same. However, the same thing did not take place when you were in power. What is the reason for that?
– Everyone works the way he or she wants. I never want to compare myself to anyone. I am who I am, Artur Baghdasaryan is Artur Baghdasaryan. I truly respect him. You will never hear anything offensive about my predecessors. If I decide to do something, I do it positively and don’t destroy what the other has done. I think that the opposition could work more effectively at the National Assembly. There would be opinionated representatives who can show the people that their projects are worth being implemented. But in my opinion, not attending the National Assembly sessions and just making speeches is not the best way. As for human relations, you know that I am for more peaceful, practical and communicative relations. Basically, I would like for all of us to work together, debate and choose the project which we consider the best. I have been in more conflicted situations and I have always led peaceful negotiations in a normal environment where everyone understands each other and comes to the same conclusion. I am not saying this to contradict anyone. But after all, tolerance is extremely important and it is also part of Christianity. People must know how to compromise, they have to be able to listen to the other’s opinion and respect one another. These are small yet very important things which play their roles in politics, negotiations and international relations.
– What would you do in this case?
– First of all, it is necessary to explain to the people where the amendments are leading us. For example, people who are disgusted with the authorities have asked me many times about the meaning of the amendments. But when you explain to them that in this case the authorities are not centralizing their power, but rather the contrary and that they mustn’t look at the constitutional amendments from one corner, then they understand. If some people tend to go against the authorities, this constitution will help dissolve the authorities and make them more distributable.
– The opposition claims that the constitutional amendments referendum being held on November 27 will turn into a test of confidence of the authorities and that there will be a revolution in Armenia on that day. What do you think?
– I don’t believe that because there is no basis for that. Besides that, our people are so wise that they understand that you can’t develop a country with revolutions. If we try to compare current day Armenia with the Armenia five years ago, we can obviously see the changes. There are errors, gaps, but you must have the basis for starting a revolution. Generally, revolutions tend to take the country back 15 years and don’t let it develop. In addition, I rarely see people who should be the ones starting a revolution. I mean, I doubt that those people can lead the country to a brighter future after the revolution.
– Aren’t you afraid that the opposition will soon start accusing you for making such judgments about Armenia while being a politician? After all, you don’t live here and don’t see how the people are living.
– I come to Armenia and I know Armenia better than others. I have close ties and I receive all types of information, whether that be positive or negative. I also have the experience to go around the city once and draw a conclusion about the status as a whole. Everyone knows me in Armenia and I know many people. What I am trying to say, is that I know everything that goes on here. But I am not directly speaking to the opposition or to anyone in particular. As you can see, I am not mentioning any names. I am friends with many, I can hug and kiss them if I want. I am talking about international experience and a fresh example of that is what happened in Ukraine. I rely on the people’s wisdom, the work that they put in every day which is effective than revolution. It is during that time when non-professionals appear in this field unexpectedly. The kinds of people that come to power are the ones who think about keeping the money to themselves. Our people have learned throughout the years that you can’t develop a country with populism and slogans. If the state is able to take care of each and every one of us with its mentality, everything will be fine. I myself criticize negative sides, show many roads to take but never appear in the public eye with those speeches. I always discussed issues behind the curtain while I was president of the National Assembly. I didn’t want to reveal all that because if I was fighting for what I wanted and won, why did I need to play around with populism? Populism generally destroys the economy of the country. It is easy to say populist phrases, but you must realize what’s going on and since you know more than the people, you must find the right path to take, even if you don’t know whether it truly is right or not. But you have to have that spirit inside of you to take that step. Even if the people then decides to say bad things to you and make you resign, it doesn’t matter; later they will say that that man was a great and wise leader and now we are going along the path that he showed us.