– What has remained from the Armenian architecture of Constantinople?
– Far in the period of the Osman Empire Armenian architects were called masters. The Armenian architecture of Constantinople has older history, when the Armenians moved from east to West. I can say that very few things have remained from the Armenian architecture of Constantinople. The same thing concerns not only the Armenian but the Turkish architecture as well. The Turkish government does not take care of them. Most of the Armenian churches in Turkey have been ruined. Of course some churches have been kept in Istanbul; these churches are open but currently we do not have a community in Istanbul. There are no Armenians there who would go to church. A number of schools have been closed but their buildings are still there. Nothing can be kept secret in a country. Of course for 100 years we were not able to speak of the history because the governments have been prohibiting us to speak, write and read about culture. We have started speaking of the Armenian issue, architecture and culture only recently. If you read the history, you will see that these buildings and palaces have were built by Armenians. 15-20 years ago we were afraid to speak about this but now the situation is quiet. There are developed people among Turks too who speak about these things.
– What is this fear conditioned by? Maybe Turkey is really trying to become democratic.
– Turkey hasn’t become democratic yet. If in the past Armenians, Kurds and Greeks were speaking about their culture the Turks would say that these minorities are trying to fragment their country and their society and open borders. These were statements circulated by the government and often by military personnel. And one could find information on that on the print and electronic media. This would keep us in absolute fear. They were calling us “gyavurs.” This atmosphere was dominating in 1990 till 2000. Even now this atmosphere exists and we cannot say that Turkey has gotten over with that approach to a full extent. Even today we hear how they label us as enemies to their country. I remember how Turkish adults would beat us. I was only 7 years old and adults would come and hit me demanding that I should take off my cross. I was little and didn’t realize much why they would demand that because in our village there were two Armenian families with no church. We were attending Turkish schools. These old people would beat us and kidnap Armenian girls from our village.
– Do they not beat Armenians now? What is changed now?
– In the past Turkey has closed down its borders and wouldn’t communicate with any other country. But now it’s trying to build relations with the US and Europe. IF something happens in Turkey nowadays the world will learn about that within 5 minutes. In the past nobody would allow us bring books to Turkey. It was forbidden. It is not easy for Turkey to take the path of democratization because so-called 100-year-old garbage is collected. Now many of the Turkish youth are struggling for knowing the truth. They read the history. I think it’s a very vital fact. Up until now there is nothing in the Turkish universities about the Armenian architecture and culture. Now it is the time to overcome these barriers and establish branches of Armenian culture in the universities. For example, palyans are called Italian palyans and claim that these palaces were built by Italians. Last year we opened an exhibition in Istanbul on Armenian architecture (takes out a book on the Armenian architecture of 19th century from the purse – M.M.). This book contains only a small part of the immense information that exists. The good thing is that people gradually start to receive accurate and truthful information.
– Mr. Zakaria, do Armenian architects have a great demand in Turkey just like in the past? As an architect, what specialized orders do you get?
– I built residence buildings and factories in Polis. I participated in the renovation of St. Cross church of Akhtamar.
– Was this order from the Turkish government?
– Yes, the government has applied to the Patriarch of Polis to request to include Armenian architects in the renovation of the church. And the Patriarch asked me to help and there many Armenian architects in Istanbul. Armenians make a little number in other cities of Turkey – Sebastia – 6-7, Malatia – 1-2 families are left. In other places there are almost no Armenians left. At this moment we have a project to renovate the Savior and Mother churches of Ani. It is one of the projects of the government because all the Armenian churches belong to the Turkish government.
– At any rate, isn’t it surprising to understand the policy of dismantling and in the meantime reconstructing the cultural monuments of Armenia?
– It is surprising but there is one circumstance here. They are reconstructing those not because those are Armenian churches. For example St. Cross church was renovated but Armenians can hardly once a year have a service there. It is turned into a museum. I once mentioned that it’s better if they turn this building into a mosque instead of destroying it because we need it. The buildings have the right to live like human beings. Of course, people often oppose me by saying how I could say such things. But what else can I suggest? It is better to have the church there instead of losing it because we need these constructions very much. We will lose our culture otherwise. We are losing Armenians here. Unfortunately, the fear still exists. Weeks ago a young Armenians soldier was killed. The animosity on part of the Turks will still continue. Despite all that I often challenge people not to be such cowards.
– Mr. Zakaria, one can rarely meet Armenian speaking people among Istanbul Armenians. Unfortunately, they either speak Armenian very badly or prefer to speak in English.
– (He smiles – M.M.). Let me tell you something. My wife is Turkish. I have two children, who graduated Armenian schools. When my first son was born I almost forgot my Armenian. Although I attended the Karagozyan orphanage and school and had learned Armenian very well but my family didn’t know Armenian. They were farmers. Most part of the Armenian villagers didn’t speak Armenian. There were local dialects. They didn’t speak Armenian at our place. 30 years later, due to my children I started to speak Armenian. Unfortunately I didn’t succeed in teaching my wife speak Armenian despite the fact that she also wanted to learn that.
– Have you changed your religion?
– Of course not. My wife belongs to her religion and I belong to mine. I go to church once or twice a year. For us the important thing is the culture of all nations. There are many important buildings in Armenia, which we established together. Armenian craftsmen have helped the Turkish masters very much because the latter didn’t have that culture. They migrated by horses and settled down in that area. They didn’t have the culture but the Armenians and Greeks had it.
– It is hard to believe that after taking a look at the current architectural picture of Armenia.
– I visited Armenia three years ago. New buildings were being constructed very close to the Republic Square. Indeed, new buildings are necessary too but it shouldn’t be done at the expense of destroying the legacy. As far as I know there were two or three –story buildings instead of the new ones in the past. Those were nice buildings, which could be restored. The same is also happening in Istanbul.
– An example of that is also the white obnoxious building constructed right next to the historic buildings of Istanbul’s Istikyal avenue. Am I right?
– You know, there is ignorance in architecture as well. There are ignorant buildings. The newly built white building on that avenue resembles a monster with its disproportional windows. The mania of making money destroys values. There are tasteless buildings here too.
– Is it one of the current motives of architecture?
– The reason of such a tasteless architecture is the existence of a number of companies, which swiftly penetrated into Istanbul. Businessmen buy land and build buildings. As we often say these buildings are being constructed over night. A part of my architect friends say that we also have our share of crime in that process because we are the ones that sketch those. After the Armenian Genocide this area was dried because they were the authors of music, theater and architecture. The first musicians of Turkey were Armenians. Armenians established the first theater, printed the first newspapers. But unfortunately even after all that we couldn’t become unanimous. The Turkish journalists were shocked about the Armenian exhibition of architecture of the 19th century of Polis.
– Does this mean that the Turks were taught the history of their city?
– Yes (he smiles – M.M.). The exhibition that lasted a month created a great noise. Last year Polis was announced the cultural city of Europe and received grants from the EU for that. The exhibition was financed by these funds. Besides that books were published in Turkish about the Armenian musicians. At this moment we have invitations to organize these exhibitions in select European cities. But we’d like to first of all organize in Armenia. We should probably inquire from Hrant Dink foundation to know when it will possibly take place.
Armenia-Turkey