– What do you think about the recent incidents in the Army starting from the incident of Chaylu and ending up with the recent video posted in Youtube?
– Certainly the incidents of Chaylu were unprecedented and our army failed, but during the second attack they were prepared and could stop the subversive attack and the Azeri party had losses. Since these incidents the society’s attention to the army increased. The killings and suicide that happened following the incidents are impermissible. From the prospective of the army suicide is more dangerous than the killing. Killings may happen under influence and as a result of fast development of situations and the officers may not notice that. But in order to commit suicide people reach that idea during the time and I don’t know what may happen to make a soldier commit a suicide. The reason why soldiers commit suicide is the lack of the officer’s discipline and it happens like that if the level of responsibility is low in the army. During my tenure I used to punish the officers much stricter in case of suicides. Currently our army is solving the problem of war and stopping any future war. We should pay attention to such things and not let these things be hidden. Anyway currently the army is the best institution in our country and it solves its problem in this hard situation, which the other institutions fail to do. First of all the state should revise the social policy in relation to army officers. The officers who spend day and night in army headquarters and are not in normal relations with their families are getting too little money. The salary of officer is very small too. This is a very serious political mistake. There should be social justice in the army. The state should find these resources and such resources are available.
– In the army like in any other state institutions the salary of officers is a symbolic wage. It is not a secret that many of them are making their living due to private businesses or corruption.
– If the head of the state cannot live with his salary of 400.000 drams, the prime minister – with 350.000 and the ministers with 300.000 drams, it is logical that the same thing will happen in other state institutions too. This is where everything starts from.
– The army top officials also blamed the society in these shortcomings and said that often such shortcomings come to the army from the society. Do you agree with that?
– It is a wrong approach. Yes, there is such problem and a lot of shortcomings go into the army from the society, but the recent incident with torturing the soldiers has nothing to do with that and it is the army’s problem.
– In our army there have not been situations when the head of the general headquarter may enter in a direct conflict with the minister. What is the reason of this?
– As a result of the reforms in the army proposed by the NATO the minister becomes a civic person, many professions are becoming civic, and the liabilities of the headquarter and ministry are separated. As a result of these reforms the level of education of the army and the potential will fall. It will bring to conflicts between the head of the general headquarter, minister and the general commander. It will result in deeper problems.
-Does this mean that these contradictions are not connected with people but reforms?
-Yes. This approach in our army and region are wrong because the standards of NATO are based on the modern technologies, strong budgets and have other strategies. Our conditions don’t allow us have such system. Now Seyran Ohanyan is a civic person, but he is also a man who has survived the war. What will happen tomorrow? What does it mean to have a non-professional minister in the army? The army is the most difficult institution and it should be able to function in two situations, both in war and in peace.
– The Armenian army is more like the Russian army and the armaments are Russian as well. Also you are known as a pro-Russian person. Is it the reason why you don’t agree with the reforms?
– No, I am not pro-Russian, I am stabile pro-Russian. The developments of the last 20 years of independent Armenia show that the security and strength of our army is provided due to the close relations with Russia, due to that cooperation we had victory in Karabakh and till now the ceasefire is provided, and unlike the militaristic announcements on part of Azerbaijan they don’t start a war. In your question you said that for the first time there is a conflict between the minister and the headquarter chief. The reason of this conflict is the separation of the powers as a result of the reforms promoted by the NATO and the results in the RA law on defense. Such institution can work in the US and European countries, but not in Armenia. Why doesn’t Azerbaijan do that? Their minister is an army persona and they oppose to other things too. They make the deputy ministers and medical staff civic person but not the minister. It can’t happen, Russia did the same too. They decided that the cooks and medical staff should be civic persons, and during military trainings it turned out that there are problems as they did not leave their families and go to other places. The goal of the army is to function in war conditions, but the model of the NATO is aimed at reducing the costs and expenses of armies in peace conditions. Our army is for being ready for a war and function in a duly manner during a war.
– Why don’t you agree with the opinion that the prolongation of the allocation of the Russian armed forces in Armenia deprives of independence?
– A country’s independence is in its security. What independence can we speak about if there is a danger of war and the security is not provided? In our situation, when there is military threat from two neighbors, it is about the survival of the state.
– It turns out that Armenia has the U-300 weapons that were supposed to be sold to Azerbaijan. Are these armaments in the Armenian army or the Russian basement?
– Armenia is entering in the air defense system together with Russia. A commanding point has been established, the decision was made by the Armenian party. The U-300 is in the Russian basement but it is included in that system.
– Can this potential of the Russian forces in Armenia be used if Azerbaijan starts a war?
– The contract writes about the provision of peace for Armenia from Turkey and Azerbaijan. The Azeri defense minister Safar Abiyev announced several months ago that all the targets in Armenia are available for the Azeri armed forces. Second, in the Azeri doctrine they are focused on the idea that Armenia is aggressor. Third, Karabakh cannot win if Armenia is not involved in the war too. That is why it is an artificial approach to separate the security of Armenia and Karabakh. It is one front. The border with Azerbaijan is 1000 kilometers, 600 kilometers out of which is with Armenia. If the contract with Russia strengthens these 600 kilometers it means that Karabakh is supported too.
– Does it mean that Russia will protect Armenia and Armenia will protect Karabakh?
– Yes. Armenia is the guarantor of Karabakh’s security. If Russia is supporting Armenia’s peace with this agreement, Armenia may support Karabakh’s peace. Can Russia solve all the problems instead of us? Russia has signed the declaration of Maindorf, which has a provision on non-application of force. Does not this mean that they are against the war? This is their interest in the region. In Azerbaijan Medvedev announced that the basement was allocated in Armenia for the purpose of excluding wars in the region.
– Azerbaijan has signed the agreement of Maindorf too but they are periodically making announcements about starting a war. It is not excluded that they may start a war, what will Russia do if it happens?
– First, Russia will do everything not to let a war break out. And if it starts, it will use its tools of influence starting from the UN Security Council. In a word, Russia will do its best not to let a war break out because they are not interested in a war in the region. I don’t want to go in details concerning the means because it is Russia’s problem. But I strongly believe that they will do their best not to let a war take place. As for the prolongation of the term of the contract, it can solve two problems. In fact the armed rival and Azerbaijan’s efforts to buy new armament for the army will have no purpose because by signing this agreement Russia provides balance of powers in the region. In this case the process moves from the Armenia-Azerbaijan level to Russia-Azerbaijan level. Second, by the agreement Russia undertakes to provide Armenia with modern military technologies, thus providing long-term balance of military powers in the region. It excludes the possibility of a war, which means that there is no reason to think about settling the conflict of Karabakh through an armed conflict. By the way, let’s pay attention to the fact that the capacity if oil in Azerbaijan is going down year by year and according to experts the oil will finish till 2040. Azerbaijan is able to buy armaments for their army due to the oil money, thus if they analyze the situation pragmatically, they will have to change their approach to the issue of Karabakh.
– Russia has a big share of cooperation for these two countries. Russia has very big economic objects in Armenia and receives super-profits, but in contrast they buy gas from the other country at international prices and pay them a lot of money. Azerbaijan is the one that benefits from the economic relations with Russia. Don’t you think that from the prospective of the relations with Russia the balance is in favor of Azerbaijan?
– This is an impression at first look. Other problems are solved here. It is true that Russia pays money and buys gas but the long-term goal is connected with the Nabucco and South stream. Russia wants to stay the main source of the gas supplied to Europe.
– Medvedev also announced that Azerbaijan is the most important strategic ally of Russia.
– If Armenia is implementing a complementary policy and is in the Collective Security Organization, as well as cooperates with NATO, Russia has the same interests with Azerbaijan, which has a border with it and is a member of the CIS too. Russia will protect those interests and we should not be afraid of that. We should make sure this cooperation does not cross the red line, beyond which the Armenian interests may suffer. The Russian-Armenian and Russian-Azeri relations cannot be put in the same box, these are not the same. The first one is strategic cooperation established by the agreement of 1997. The agreement writes that Russia takes part in the provision of Armenia’s security notwithstanding the direction from where the danger may come.