– The government of Armenia considers the prolongation of the deployment of the Russian military base in Gyumri a guarantee for security and the opposition thinks that by this the sovereignty of our country was endangered. Do you agree with this opinion?
– In fact it is nothing good if any state wishes to practice power within our state. During these 20 years we have given so much that now we are speaking of 100%. We have given them the atomic station, gas, railways, telephone, customs checkpoints. We have given all. We have given all the clothes and have stayed naked. After all that it is not even important if this is given or not. It cannot be any other way either. If everything depends on the neighbor, uncle then the owner is the uncle. The one, who pays, gives the order of music. The bread and money of our people comes from there. I wouldn’t believe that any smart and patriotic person would say it was good. But there is no second option either. They say getting on the donkey is one thing, getting off –another thing. On the other hand that document contains thousands of ways how we can tell the Russians to leave. It is not pleasant but imminent. But today we have more important issues than this for our country. We should take care of ourselves. We should do something good for our home or else others are going to tell us what to do. Our relations with the Georgians may get a little tense.
– What is the possibility of resumption of war in Armenia?
– When the war started nobody declared anything and the treaty was actually signed for temporary truce. After that many soldiers died on the border. And this issue is impossible to solve. For example, I personally don’t think that it may be solved around the table. If we give back Karabakh we will have to give back it all. But it is quite clear that Azeris should want it and we should refuse to give back. As of negotiations I don’t imagine how it can be done. They don’t want to solve it. It is not because of weak diplomacy but because they just can’t find the solution. They have made diplomacy a policy and my lying and cheating they are trying to move forward. They may agree on something but publicize a totally different thing. The Azeris are not ready to leave an inch of land, so aren’t we.
– But the talks around the return of the liberated territories are getting activated.
– If such an issue was there they should have first of all brought up the issue of independence of the NKR and not the return of the liberated regions. We have thousands of hectares of land in the hand of the Turks in Shahumyan, Martakert, Armenia and Karabakh, Noyemberyan, Ijevan, Shamshadin. We may sit down and talk about the possible return of lands. I find it meaningless to talk about the return of any territories without the independence status of the NKR. For example on this wing (he means the territories in Hadrut region), the commander of which I was, I needed to take the threat away. There was even time when they called to Armenia; they sent people to me by persuading me not to go. And I told them if they carry responsibility that they will not move any further I will stop and go back to Echmiadzin. And if you are not sure I will go further to secure my people and the borders. Despite the fact that these were our lands we enjoyed conquering those and create a zone of defense. I told the people of that region if you go I can go sooner but I am here to protect you. That is the reason why I brought my 13-year-old Karen with me so that they wouldn’t make their kids flee. When I was a commander here there was no authority in Hadrut. In Martakert, where Samvel Babayan, was the commander, he had to have my permission to enter that territory.
– Do you find it possible that in the near future the Armenian troops may leave those territories and the Russian troops will be deployed as Russia intensively words on that?
– It cannot happen. No international troops can be there. In that case they should have some final agreement. They should decide it immediately. It can’t be done gradually. We don’t trust the Azeris and they don’t trust us. How can everything be solved gradually?
– The Azeris are getting constantly armed. What do you think about the fact that our strategic partner Russia is selling armaments to Azerbaijan?
– The Russians have always given it to us and them. Azerbaijan cannot be armed and we not. Back in the day they had much but we won. The Russians are always trying to keep the balance. Russia is our strategic partner but Azerbaijan is an economically more stable partner. They have direct connection with oil and gas. For powerful states today oil and gas are more important than strategic partnership.
– Do you find it possible that Russia may use its interests against us and we can have negative results in the foreign policy?
– First of all I believe in us. And we will not do so. If we let this happen everything is possible. In the region Azerbaijan is relying on oil and gas. Turkey is also its follower. Georgia is pro-European. And for Armenia it is very important to use our human resources in the right manner but we do not do so. We are in a worse shape because strategically we are at the point that cannot develop relations with Iran because America is choking them. Georgians in general don’t like anyone but themselves. And everything is evident in the aspect of Azerbaijan and Turkey. We are in a tough situation. If countries like Russia and the US are playing with each other and sacrificing Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan they will abuse us any moment when they find necessary for themselves. In the region the US is the direct partner with Georgia and this changes a lot. The US wishes to strengthen Georgia. There was time when Sahakashvilli has become a leader among the presidents of the region. Even Robert Kocharyan, who was a quite stubborn politician, was not able to solve issues as well as Sahakashvilli. But if our direct neighbors are of no convenience to us then our choice is with the Russians. You should fly 10-12 hours to reach the US. Russia is closer. On the other hand, if today we tell the Russians to leave, a bigger riot will rise because many people are interlinked with the Russian capital. During the history we have seen a lot of good and bad stuff from the Russians. But at any rate Russia is a very important partner for Armenia.
– There is an opinion that during the resumption of war our people wouldn’t battle with the previous encouragement and inspiration because many people got disappointed after the war when the government didn’t keep its promises. When possible the parents are taking their children out of the country so that they don’t serve the army because there are many flaws in the army as well.
– I don’t think so. If your brother fought with me now he shouldn’t protect you? The good parent wouldn’t do anything like that. The young people, who are outside the borders of Armenia are dying and being buried more often than the ones, who are serving the army. And 80% of the young people, who are outside, are on drugs. I don’t quite agree with that. They say so in order to justify their moves.
– But several soldiers died in the army during peace period last month.
– We are all guilty of that. No one can doubt that our army is professional but we know that we got defective people too. This is clear as well. For example, one of those guys wasn’t supposed to be in the army and this is our fault regardless of whether that the person is – a sergeant, soldier, commander or minister. Everybody is guilty even the people, who ensure that their children don’t join the army and help them avoid service. The incidents in Chailu were a result of flaw. After that I have spoken to both Bako and Serzh. They are both sorry. A person doesn’t necessary has to be slaughtered to cause one’s sorrow or compassion.
– Are you sure that in the event of need the former warriors will fight the war again?
– Even several thousand is enough. The military spirit of our fighters is very high.
– Our government quite often says that the Armenian soldier fights for his fatherland and not for the lands of others. That’s why their spirit is high. And they basically rely on that fact rather than psychological willingness of the soldier to fight.
– That is also true. But the ones, who underestimate the Azeris, don’t understand anything from the war.
– You visit the liberated territories every year and the NKR. People, who live here and especially the villagers, live in very bad social conditions and are evidently disappointed. Do you agree with the opinion that ever since the war and during the years of the cease fire the victory was taken for granted and the psychology of the winner had receded?
– I have seen this logic not after the war but since 1988. I have seen how they live in the rule of the Turk. A state was established after the 600 years of absence of statehood, 75 years of soviet rule. Our state is younger than 20 years. It’s just certain things are unpleasant and are not done in the right manner. In this country regardless of the positions and posts, would it be a janitor, president or a minister, things are not done in the right way. And this is what makes me sad. It’s not that today we are offended from each other. Yes it shouldn’t have been so. Our people deserved more.
– And what is done wrong?
– If every person, every official does his work and duties properly everything will be in place. If I am not a good soccer player I shouldn’t play and claim for prizes. The right cadres should be selected. It is very bad that in the current government there is coalition. By coalition I understand that if in our country are several nations then their interests should be protected. If a ministry is give to a party then the whole staff should belong to that party. They are suggesting you to become a member of this or other country for solving any issue, would it be employment, university admission, hospital or acceptance of grapes. And so these people get to join these parties for the sake of their goals. So will this person really be a good member for your party?