– According to the annual UNDP report since 1991 up to 1.3 million people have migrated from Armenia. The people, who presented the report in our country, claim that starting from 2008 the migration rates accelerated. Do you agree with the viewpoint that this is connected not only with the hard social-economic conditions of people but also lack of their legal and even physical protection?
– First of all I don’t think that the situation got worse after 2008. The situation has been bad and remains bad. If you mean March 1 of 2008 then those events were meant to reveal and raise the issues connected with the social, justice and oligarchic systems. The average citizen doesn’t feel comfortable in his/her own country. It has been like this both before and after 2008.
– Haven’t the marred elections of 2008 and the March 1 events even more deepened the difficult situation?
– The March 1 was in 2008 but it was consequence of the situation erupted afterward. We also should remember that after that we had the global crisis in the country, which wasn’t connected with Armenia but was mainly linked to international economic processes. If approximately 40% of the population lived at the expense of international remittances it means that there was no economy in the country. Then there was crisis in the countries, from where monetary means were transferred. As a result of the reduction of remittances the situation got very difficult in Armenia. I have the conviction that the majority of the people, who migrate, do so because of moral and justice issues rather than due to financial or social causes. The migrating people are not only the ones, who are not financially protected. Many people have very good financial opportunities. It means that something is wrong in the country starting from 1995. This polarization should be over. If we are building a capitalistic system let us have capitalists and not oligarchs. We should get rid of monopolies, build a free economic system and make the checks and balances work. We should restore the social justice; the average citizen should understand that if he goes to the court the court will protect his rights.
– In March the report of the chief rapporteur of the UN refugee issues was released, which stated that starting from 2009 the number of Armenians migrating to Europe for permanent residence increased by 43%. Doesn’t this rapid growth mean that it’s connected with the events of 2008?
– The situation of 2008 was the culmination but it was culmination connected with the passed situation. In addition to this we had the global crisis.
– Last week the US representative expressed concern at the UN Human Rights Council that as a result of the amnesty the issue of the political prisoners was partially solved. Representatives of a number of EU countries also voiced concern about the democracy level, freedom of speech, marred elections in our country and pointed out the necessity of conducting a fair forensic examination. In the meantime the representative of Armenia spoke the way that there are no such issues. Which of the opinions do you agree with?
– They are doing a very bad thing by disguising the reality and showing everything in rosy colors. By doing so the situation doesn’t improve. We are preparing interim reports about the freedom of speech and the right of organizing rallies and assemblies. We have also prepared a report on fair forensic examination. In fact, we have a lot to do in these sectors. If we ask an average citizen whether he believes that his interests and rights can be protected in the courts. Neither do the law enforcers. At present we have a crisis in terms of the lack of trust of citizens to state institutes. This is very dangerous and these issues should be resolved. If we had a decent system no one would doubt whether the imprisoned ones are political prisoners or regular prisoners.
– Do you doubt this too?
– Nobody could do this because in that case it would mean that we either have or don’t have political prisoners. Today these people consider themselves political prisoners and perhaps they have grounds for that. From the other end they are mentioning that it is not quite so and that the charges are brought against them have legal grounds. I have said my opinion regarding many of the cases linked to the March 1 events. I think that Armenia will lose most of the cases at the European Court.
– Do you agree with the announcement of the prosecutor-general of Armenia Aghvan Hovsepyan, by which he says that he doesn’t agree that there are 14 political prisoners in Armenia. In his words, these people are condemned of concrete actions, which are legally punitive – treason to the fatherland and for example, spreading prostitution.
– I neither agree nor disagree with the announcement of the prosecutor general. The prosecutor is the prosecuting side. So it’s natural that they should have said so and they have grounds for that. The problem here is not how the prosecutor envisions this issue. Are people sure that if this turns out to be untruthful the actual truth will be revealed? Today in the courts the prosecutors and the attorneys don’t have equal positions.
– Nevertheless, do you find the fact of 14 imprisoned people since the events of 2008 justified?
– If you are asking my opinion as an Ombudsman I would have a big wish to not having seen these people in jail. I am sure that this would serve as a stride forward in our national consolidation. But my opponents are saying to me, “Mr. Harutyunyan, we cannot agree with you as we have concrete charges brought up against each of the imprisoned. If we release one of them we will have to release dozens of people with similar charges.”
– Do you as a lawyer consider the charges of the 14 people substantiated?
– I don’t give assessment to the court verdicts. I have only tried to say that in many cases I see dubious points and that we’ll have problems in the European Court. I cannot say anything else as an Ombudsman. But if you are asking my opinion I would wish a lot if these people were released soon.
– The initiative of establishing education foundations aimed at conducting educational programs in foreign languages caused a strict criticism in the government. Do you see any fear in this initiative?
– In general, I consider these approaches politicized attempts. If people are concerned about the national school then the tragic state of schools then this issue existed before the concerns were voiced. Why haven’t they spoken about this? Why did they remember this when such an issue was raised? The problem is not to speak Armenian. The problem is what kind of education they are receiving in the Armenian language. Our neighbors take a lot more from our history and privatize those than we? We should first of all raise an issue about our national school. It should be strengthened and developed. Our culture is powerful but we cannot ourselves increase its potential to raise generations. I wish that our schools had certain directions. For example, it could be French or English so that students would learn certain subjects in that language. This would help us move certain elements from that culture to ours and improve something here in our mentality. Something is wrong with our mentality as the history shows as evidence to our failures. If we do all this and overcome the difficulties we will become very indifferent about the possible opening of some 20 foreign educational schools.