The elections in the 10th precinct of Yerevan came to show that the expectations claiming that 2010 would be a better year were not justified. However, after our conversation with painter Arevshat Avagyan and architect Levon Igityan it turned out that not everyone was disappointed about the process of elections.
L.A. – Mr. Avagyan, did you follow the elections in the 10th precinct of Yerevan on January 10?
A.A. – Generally I don’t understand the meaning of elections in Armenia well. Elections are not fair and transparent in Armenia. Everything is done to make people disappointed and get alienated from such processes.
-Mr. Igityan, it is not original but I am asking the same question to you.
L.I. – I was not interested in the elections. Generally I think this thing is falsification. We thought Hmayak Hovhannisyan is an intelligent person with good knowledge; however an intelligent person would struggle to contribute to the development of the country rather than giving up. It was bad of him to withdraw his candidacy, but I am also happy that Nikol Pashinyan did not become MP either.
L.A. – Does not it matter how he failed to become MP?
L.I. – In this case it does not matter because I believe Nikol Pashinyan is destructive. I would not like him have significant leverages in the state administration system.
L.A. – Recently the Constitutional Court issued a decision claiming the protocols between Armenia and Turkey are not unconstitutional, which resulted in the disappointment of some political powers. They claim the Armenian government is selling the Armenian justice and Artsakh.
A.A. – I believe the noisy process of the Armenian-Turkish reconciliation is very important. However unfortunately the historical truth about the Armenian justice, Genocide and lands is not introduced to the international community in a duly manner. We know but we forget to say that Artsakh is not an occupied land and according to its monuments, cultural monuments and historians it is an Armenian land and it is not fair when Turkey has occupied the most part of the Armenian historical lands and now speaks of justice because of the pressure on part of Europe and the US and its own interests.
L.I. – When I hear about the Armenian-Turkish relations I imagine a situation when someone walks in a narrow and dark street, and suddenly a group of hooligans attack him and rob him. Time has passed. Now everyone calls on the parties to sit at a table and talk. I say let them return my cloths and I will talk to them to find out who is right or wrong. We are claiming our belongings and the Americans and others are teaching us how to behave. They would be better feel that pain and then teach us what to do. I like the fact that Armenia has initiative at the hand. We had so many historical rights that could take this initiative long ago. It is a game of big states in the world. We should remember that we were citizens of a big state. The fact that the country has become smaller does not mean that our thinking has become smaller too.
L.A. – The fact that falsified and violated elections are introduced otherwise to the society to make them believe that everything was good means that this way of thinking has become smaller anyway. Don’t you think so?
A.A. – Our intelligentsia representatives, whose voice is not heard much, are speaking of this too, but their voices are not available to people. There are no serious educative TV programs. The TV is throwing garbage to the homes of people. They are showing a film about the army. I think this movie creates a broken psychological stereotype for the people who are going to serve in the army soon. Children are watching and laughing, it seems it is a temporary funny thing, but we are breaking the basements of the army with this movie. These things are becoming like a book for children and they learn them and try to repeat.
L.I. – I think we don’t have an established society. The reason is the fact that even if we have an intelligentsia, the society cannot hear their voice. I don’t mean that people don’t listen to them, what I say is that they don’t speak. The ones who speak are separate people who speak in specific places. The reason is the fact that these people have ambitions to be higher than others. Even I think that there are people who think during their life what to do to be buried in the pantheon. They are thinking of their career and collect facts. I don’t see people speaking positive things about the works of others; there are works of famous composers that are heard overseas but people don’t speak good things about these works in the country.
A.A. – Our country is small and maybe ten times smaller than a Chinese city but have too many political parties, foreign donors and advisors. It is a wrong environment. Our society has a problem of electricity and gas; money has become an organizing factor which loses its value for the poor. As for the rich people, they have their artists and promoters and can order a corporative spot for themselves in the pantheon. Such artists are serving all the time and are in the first places. The ones who are real writers and publicist and had to be on papers and TV all the time are not shown at all. There is a big mistake of evaluating the values.
L.A. – Mr. Igityan, you spoke of the pantheon. Last year you became a member of Yerevan city council. You are suggesting to move composer Alexander Spendaryan’s cemetery from the surrounding of the Opera House to the pantheon. We understand that people want to build a cafe there. Don’t you think it is better not to remove the cemetery rather than build a café there?
L.I. – There cannot be any cafes there because the air ventilation facilities are located there. I think people don’t visit cafes in Yerevan so often any more. At that time it was the only choice and people buried Spendaryan there. But now he has to be with the great people in the pantheon. Kochar, Arno, Alikhanyan and others like them have to be there because when the number of the real great people becomes less in the pantheon secondary people are being buried there. It has become a spot for competition.
L.A. – There are people there who don’t have to be there near Komitas. Removing the cemetery of Spendaryan does not solve this problem but solves the problem of building a cafe there.
– Komitas, Saryan, Avetik Isahakyan, Aram Khachatryan, Parajanov. There is hierarchy. That is why someone may say that it is enough to listen to Komitas because it is just a version. I have heard it myself. He was a person, who living in Istanbul could make our music a crystal, he made it classics, and now someone with an unknown appearance may come up and say it is just a version, by the way the one who said so is Armenian as well. He is the axis of our music. I asked who that man is. They got surprised that I did not know him. They told me this man is Prof, i.e. Tata’s arranger. A question originated and I asked myself who Tata is. I am not against Tata but I am against putting him near the great people.
A.A. – Every day I am invited to take part in a book presentation or discussion. I go there and speak there, but there was no one from the TV companies at the exhibition of Martin Petrosyan. Another interesting exhibition was opened in Yerevan but they did not cover this event either. The anniversaries of the great people are celebrated but not like they should be. It means patriotism is considered to be a low understanding.
L.I. – We are feeding people with the cheapest food, i.e. the TV, radio, and claim that this is what they demand and what they need. We did, but the reason why the current generation is not interested in classic works is the fact that the officials and politicians of our days are amateurs. What kind of music are they playing? What they are laying has nothing to do with music. I know talented actors who are playing in criminal movies. When I see them in the street I see their appearance has changed because they are playing other roles now. They know in what society they are living and they want to be in harmony with this society.
L.A. – You are saying that it is our fault. Do you think the society is not ready to listen to the intelligentsia or the intelligentsia is not like they should be?
A.A. – Talented intelligentsia representatives are modest and they don’t want to show up; it is a human character.
L.A. – Let me disagree with you. Let’s bring the example of Rostropovich: he was considered to be an etalon of modesty, but he had a political attitude, which did not comply with the attitude of the government, accordingly many intelligentsia representatives as well.
L.I. – Rostropovich is not typical because having been a bright and great musician the state has made him a political phenomenon and he had to do this action no matter what. I just thought of something. And I think I am the first to come up with this idea. Please, fix this. We don’t have television; we have “tele-state,” which is a separate state. Recently I was in Kirovakan in the branch of the art center. I saw masterpieces on the walls. I asked a naïve question. Why haven’t you invited from TVs? We have to pay separately for their attendance. How come? You create masterpieces and have to pay separately for their attendance to publicize your pieces to the society? There should be the demand. And in order to create the demand the consumer must be educated in the right way. Let me say that in certain cases force should be used to forbid certain things because these people don’t get the freedom right. Once a Russian actor Shirvindt was asked what freedom was. He answered self-restriction.
A.A. – This year Victor Hambardzumyan’s and William Saroyan’s statues were placed in Yerevan. It means that in the city we can see statues of decent people and from the screens the garbage flows into the houses and imperils our statehood. With our actors, blinking stars we ruin the moral grounds from morning till evening.
L.A. – Unfortunately this is done with the help of representatives of intelligentsia as well. Thank you.