– Why did you drop your MP’s mandate? You haven’t commented on your decision yet but there are different rumors about the reasons why you did that.
– I resigned in May of this year due to two main reasons: I don’t want to work in the parliament, neither I want to occupy any state positions because I am busy with business. I don’t know whether I could explain the reasons well. People know the relations and norms in this country and did not want to believe that those reasons were real and looked for other reasons such as conflicts, orders, etc. I have worked in the parliament for about one year, I was a member of the parliamentary commission on Euro Integration issues, member of the Armenian parliament to the PACE. I have friends in the parliament as well, I have friends from all commissions and I haven’t said anything wrong about these people unlike the fact whether there have been such things or no. On the other hand, the environment may support and such things can become a topic of discussion and people can speak with other definitions. As for the rumors about alleged conflict, I think that logically such conflict should have been between me and the commission head. I assure that I didn’t have any problems with Gagik Tsarukyan during my resignation and I do not have now either. We have worked exclusively in an environment of mutual trust and respect. During all this time we have been in close relations. I believe that Tsarukyan understands the real situation in this country better, cares about this country more than many other people and has been brave in difficult situations as well. There are things which I don’t want to speak about now. Now, when I am not in the parliament, I have more clear understanding of the political life and civic processes. I have understood one more time that the most important thing is the common environment, the rules of the game, the quality of relations in the state system and society, the types of values. There are big problems here and it is being slightly violated.
– Does it mean that you think that MPs in fact don’t play any roles and are not important players?
– Being MP does not change in my life and in the parliament. The main functions of MPs are pressing buttons as they have been instructed to do (with some exceptions) and acting as they are told to do. There is no difference whether it will be done by you or others. I don’t understand how MPs can defend a specific attitude or opinion everywhere and in the parliament, but later bring another bill which is against their principles and defend that bill, and later complain “what they are doing”. Many of them are doing this. A question originates who else is doing that but not us. These are the real rules of the game and unlike the rights and responsibilities defined by the parliament many people obey and do what they are told to do. This environment should be broken and it will be good for the state and the government as well because people will trust the government. If such problems exist the state cannot develop. Now three principles are dominating in the state system: gossip, flittering and obeying. These are the ways how people are promoted and get wealthy.
– For example, the recent meeting of the president with the taxation bodies was broadcast by the pro-government media in the same logics, but many people believe that it was done to solve certain problems.
– Tell you frankly I understand why Serzh Sargsyan was emotionally angry at the taxation body. He pointed out on one of the mentioned two principles. But it is not enough yet to point out. It is very important to understand the reasons and try to solve the problem. This problem is really big and if you haven’t ever dealt with such structures, you can’t understand how disgusting they are. Those “principles” would not prevail, they would not press down other positive principles if they were not encouraged. Encouraging such principles in the state system and social relations may bring to catastrophic results. Many professionals are leaving the state system because of these shortcomings and many other professionals, whose rights and dignity are abused are getting angry and becoming useless for the state system. The malformation of impunity should be excluded and the state should transform from management of individuals to state collective management. These are urgent and important issues. You can call it a revolution, reformation or otherwise but if these things are not done in time the statehood of Armenia will suffer much. I am not exaggerating. The culture of this country will become something like semi-eastern and semi-khanate system of administration. It is really difficult to overcome the two barriers I mentioned because in a system of malformation of such relationships it is difficult to give up on them and transform to another system. However I believe that if they attach importance to this issue all the other things will be just a matter of techniques and debates. I strongly believe that it is impossible to achieve that without state intimidation, and sometimes even painful intimidation. The state should be separated from friendly or relatives’ relations. The state system has nothing to do with it. No institution in Armenia operates effectively now, and there is no exception. The level of imitation has grown too much. All we are a part of the process of imitation of living, governing, giving up, expressing opinions and reforming. For example take any institution and you will agree with me.
– What can be the results of activities of state institutions which don’t work well or are not formed to the extent of being effective?
– The conflict of Russia and Georgia is a good example of imitated state system of administration. There was a war in several hundred kilometers distance from Yerevan. And what happened in Armenia? The parliament did not call an extraordinary session and did not ask the foreign affairs, the defense minister, transport minister and the minister of emergency situations to speak. The security council held a meeting only seven days later after the armed conflict. No parliamentary political party organized a board meeting to come up with an announcement. No TV company broadcast operative information and none of them came up with serious analysis. I spoke about four systems, which acted inadequately. In fact it means that we don’t have a real parliament, real security council, real parties and real TV companies. There is a war near us, the two biggest countries are in conflict in a place where some time ago thousands of Armenians were swimming and spending their vacations, but our TV companies are showing soap operas and songs. You can’t escape from problems with this, you can just show that your state does not respond to situations correspondingly. Also the activation of the Armenian-Turkish relations is a good example. One or two years ago people who were strongly against developing any relations with Turkey now are saying that they appreciate this fact. Once Serzh Sargsyan clarified and expressed his approach all politicians and parties forgot about everything and defended that stance. One or two years ago president Kocharyan’s policy was more limited and the same institutions and people were strongly against any relations with Turkey. I have never been a loyalist of the Dashnaks party and I have never advocated for their views, but if the actions of the Dashnaks did not take place in this time when everyone has forgotten everything, it would be shame. Certainly the relations between Armenia and Turkey should become better, the borders should be opened and I have spoken about this and supported this initiative even in the period when everyone was against Turks and it was a normal thing to blame each other in treason. But the problem is different. If there were institutions in Armenia such as in Turkey, we would not become their loyalists in one day. It can be possible in a system where there are no institutes and it depends on individuals. It is a very dangerous thing. It is dangerous not only because of the fact that they may not respect us, but the fact that the state cannot define the issues as they are and try to find solutions. This tragic situation in the country is not good for any authorities. If there were serious governmental and non-governmental institutions, centers and parties in Armenia, before inviting Gul to Armenia the president of Armenia would discuss the issue with them, discuss the possible scenarios, would work out mechanisms how to work with the society and accordingly the state and the president would be safer and we would not have to sit and wait till Gul’s answer on September 4.
– What may happen later?
– We have parties, society, media which were ordered to become Turkey’s loyalists in one month and they did, and there is also a neighboring country (Turkey) which protects its interests only and doesn’t show any sign of support to Armenia. Turkey has involved in a long-term game for maneuvering and it is ready for it, but we are not ready due to the lack of corresponding institutions. I think we should be very careful. We should not ever complain and sit with empty hands, we should come to certain conclusions and act correspondingly. Such situations will always repeat. Such situations will always happen in our foreign policy. There will be serious and hard challenges inside the country as well. We will be faced with a problem of finding solutions for difficult problems. We need new methods of working and new institutions, new people, but the first two components are more important. Those people who are used to repeating everything the president says and never can say that it would be better to do something else are not flexible and cannot undertake changes easily. Our country does not have many resources and it is not realistic to replace them with other things in a short term. It is possible to find adequate solutions of current problems only in case we have good institutions which are independent and can operate well.
– What are you doing now? Do you have a new job?
– I am busy with my private business, which lets me take care of my family. And when I have free time I am working on my book. As for public activities, now I am working on some projects for my future. I don’t exclude the possibility of returning to the parliament through extraordinary or ordinary elections, but it may happen only in case when the environment in the country and the rules of the game change.