– Mr. Manoyan, the ARF has stated that it will initiate actions of protest f the Turkish President Abdullah Gull agrees to visit Armenia to watch the soccer match on September 6 as invited by Armenia’s President Serzh Sargsyan. Have you already decided what concrete steps you are going to undertake?
– I don’t know as the Supreme Body is in charge of that.
– The RA President has made a step to normalize relations with Turkey. Why do you complain about it?
– Yes, but it doesn’t mean that we cannot express our opinion. I don’t think that a significant part of the society must be deprived of the right to express opinions. I think everyone in this society has the right to express opinion about a person, who has so far been a threat to our country. The country, which that person represents, keeps Armenia in blockade and finds Armenia a miserable neighbor. The country, which that person represents, has been keeping Armenia in blockade and finds Armenia a miserable neighbor. And I am sure that one of the main reasons why the political elite of Turkey don’t wish to normalize relations with Armenia is that they think that our country cannot avoid depending on them. I think their political way of thinking still remains at the level of 1915-1919. They are trying to have a neighbor, which will not play an essential role in the region, a neighbor, who they can order whatever they wish. I think that the Armenian society has a right to express their opinion about the leader of that country. However, our President thinks differently.
– The ARF has joined the government coalition initiated by the President of RA. It also approved the government agenda. Doesn’t this mean that by opposing the President you are betraying your comrades?
– The government plan doesn’t say anything about the assumption that the people must forget their past and don’t have the right to express opinion about Armenia’s foreign policy. If there was a change in the behavior of the government that would make us deflect from the coalition. However there is nothing like that right now.
– At this moment because of the Georgian-Ossetian war the cargo transportation of Armenia has virtually stopped. Don’t you think that it is the time to undertake practical steps to improve relationship with Turkey and try to find some new ways of communicating with the rest of the world.
– I don’t know where your information comes from but from what I know that threat doesn’t exist any more. It is quite simple that this conflict had nothing to do with us and that we need to find some new ways of communication. If this conflict, which doesn’t directly relate to us creates such economic problems for us some other more serious conflicts may paralyze our economy. We may increase our roads of communication with Iran. But we shouldn’t recede to Turkey for that. Turkey blocked the roads to make us look poor. Turkey offers preconditions to open roads but those preconditions may even make us poorer. If we start with preconditions we have ore grounds to bring up political-legal and moral ones. We don’t do that based on the situation. One of the main preconditions during the past 15 years was to give up Karabakh. It didn’t happen during the presidency of the former president and it won’t happen during the presidency of Sargsyan. It means that Turkey put herself in a deadlock. Based on its relationships with Azerbaijan Turkey doesn’t change its attitude even with the pressure of some internal political circles. But if by this blockade the opportunities of Armenia are limited then Turkey also suffers to a certain extent. The recent events in Georgia showed that due to that same blockade the roads, which pass near Armenia, are not that safe. Besides that Turkey is limited in the implementation of its abilities in the region and the opportunity of playing a significant role as long as it has negative relations with its neighbors. Turkey is only a party in the region and not an overwhelming role-player and cannot change the political climate in the region. I think the blockade equally harms our economic opportunities and the political opportunities of Turkey. If it wasn’t so neither the US not the EU would pressure on Turkey to establish normal relations with Armenia. The political limitations of Turkey also limit the opportunities of the US and the EU to play a more active role in the region.
– Do you think Turkey will establish friendly relations with Armenia under the mentioned pressure of the external world?
– Foreign pressure and impact have their role in the regulations of such relations; however that role is not decisive. Turkey is not the country to obey the opinion of other states when dealing with relations with other countries. This pressure only makes Turkey to discuss what the aftermath of the 15-year old blockade was for Turkey. Of course Turkey may open the border any time, however the relations must be regulated on the basis of an agreement. But this can only happen if Turkey succeeds in persuading Azerbaijan that the opening of the border will be useful for both of them. I think that this cannot happen now because Turkey has quite unstable government and its own internal threats.
– Due to the absence of relations with Turkey and Azerbaijan Armenia is deprived of the opportunity to be part of regional projects. Don’t you think if this process continues Armenia will be even more isolated?
– Armenia has its value not only because of Turkey or East-West. There are relations with Iran, Russia and Georgia. Armenia must make its decisions based on its national and state interests. Armenia’s opportunities are limited at this stage but it doesn’t mean that those don’t exist at all.
– Trade turnout of Armenia with Iran is only little percentage and the cargo transportation through the territory of Iran is very expensive and unprofitable. Otherwise our cargo would generally go through Iran.
– I am not quite sure of that. I just think that the Black Sea is closer. The corridor of Syunik-Iran must be turned more simple and also use the opportunity of the railroad. There is also a project to build an oil refinery plant. These are projects, which Armenia should be more active about.
– The ARF agrees with the opinion of the former President Robert Kocharyan regarding the possibility of the visit of Gull to Armenia.
– Yes, if the president was an ARF member that invitation would not be made. But nothing much happened because of that invitation. We understand why the president is trying to invite Gull. Gull’s visit doesn’t solve our problems. The attempts of our president to change the environment through Gull’s visit may not succeed. By inviting Gull our president tossed the game ball in their field. They are the ones, who should so something about it. Kocharyan also made attempts like that but Sargsyan attempt is more provided a huge advocacy field. Kocharyan also responded to the invitation of their Prime Minister. There was a mutual suggestion, which till now remains without response. But they won in terms of advocacy.
– Mr. Manoyan, at any rate do you think Gull will visit Armenia and what reaction will there be from the international community?
– In this region in the aspect of international relations he is some pigeon of peace. Therefore, I think he will visit Armenia. He may do this because he knows that his visit will not change much. The environment in terms of advocacy may be slightly improved and he may benefit from it. Of course our president will benefit from this advocacy otherwise he would invite him.
– What are you especially against – Gull’s visit or our president’s invitation?
– It is not the first time that we have been against Gull. We have undertaken actions in some other places against the Turkish president. We have many things to remind him of.
– But after the match our soccer team of young men is going to travel to Turkey. In that case the Turks will organize similar actions against them there.
– It is bad that we have to work with the psychology of a hostage. In that case it would be better if we didn’t send our young men to Turkey at all.
– So what version is more profitable for the ARF – Gull’s visit and protest actions or Gull refusing to visit?
– We would prefer that he doesn’t visit at all because he will use this fact for advocacy purposes.