Writer, essayiste and philosopher Ruben Angaladyan is surprised at the fact that during this difficult phase when there is a conflict between South Ossetia and Georgia our leaders are in vacation.
– Mr. Angaladyan, you have numerously mentioned in your words that the highest value is the human being but indeed the recent developments in the region and how the human beings were treated are against the principle you mentioned. In fact these events have proven that human beings and their lives don’t cost anything…
– The value of a man’s life is becoming higher when that man or those people decide to struggle for freedom. These are the standards that are deciding the value of life in independent countries. No country, which has not developed to a certain level, wants to lose its territories. For example, the Georgian people have not grown to that level to show that the highest values are the relations of human beings and the international community first of all in their territory. They are used to ruling, assimilation and annihilation. This has happened during many years in the past as well. It is impossible to establish free and democratic countries through such approaches. There have been historical reasons for this war. In the 20s the ossetians raised the issue of uniting two Ossetian territories within Russia. There are documents and letters proving this fact. Now you can see the same thing, which has grown to war already. Ossetia and Abkhazia want to be independent. Where are the Armenian people of Javakhk who are oppressed, don’t develop and live in bad conditions? Besides that we know that the Georgians have annihilated a number of Armenian churches and now they want to annihilate more forty churches.
– It seems that Armenia is in a neutral position and the conflict is between our neighbors Russia and Georgia. Do you think that the Georgian Armenians should raise their issues before Georgia, thus creating one more problem for it? Is the fact that the Armenians have kept silence for many years is a diplomatic step thought long before or are we afraid that in such case there would be no transportation routes connecting Armenia with the external world?
– Tell you frankly I am surprised at the fact that our leaders are still in vacation and don’t come back. It is a very serious regional issue and we should follow the developments attentively and be ready for everything because we don’t know what may happen. When the war of Karabakh finished in 94 the Georgian Armenians returned to Javakhk. They were very active and full of hopes. We had to do our best to help them make their active hopes come true and coordinate a parliamentarian struggle to draw the political borders of Armenian regions of Georgia. However Armenia did not do anything.
– What will happen in the future in consideration of the fact that this may be a result of a political trick?
– Yes it is a trick because Sahakashvili should not have done that.
– His nerves could not resist it any more and at least Russia got what it wanted: Georgia attacked South Ossetia.
– Even those countries which are against Russia’s actions against Georgia agree with the fact that Georgia was the one to start the war first. Georgia attacked at night and bombed civilians, which means that it is aggression. I am surprised at the speeches of some Armenian officials who don’t focus on the value of the human life first because there are many Armenians in Georgia, Abkhazia and Ossetia. Every Armenian living in Ossetia should be very valuable for us. We should realize that the life of every Armenian should be very valuable for us because often we are speaking of the 1,5 million victims of the Genocide but forgetting about separate people. The Russian foreign affairs minister said that they are acting based on the international laws according to which their state can interfere if the rights of their citizens are abused. This is the right way.
– Do you think that Armenia should preserve neutrality or it is an issue of security of the Georgian Armenians which should be solved through interference?
– There are two approaches and we should figure it out how much they are involved in the conflict and how much they have suffered. Second, we should also figure out what the relations between Armenia and Georgia will be like after this conflict. We should also objectively evaluate the value of the transit route we have through Georgia and shouldn’t exaggerate or underestimate it either. We should understand that as we need Georgians in terms of certain issues they need us too in terms of other issues. As for this war, I think that it will finish and a peace agreement will be executed.
– The factor of Sahakashvili was quite actual in this war. Once you said that if a president of a country is originally from a village it is a serious problem for him. Do you think that this fact doesn’t let the president do his job well in consideration also of the fact that our three presidents were born in villages as well?
-There are several reasons why such origin is a problem. First of all political processes are managed in the main city. Politics is concentrated in capital cities. Second, the city gives a clear picture of political life and the society, which is not so clear in villages. The time is treated differently in villages than in cities. It means that cities are the only place where politicians can be brought up.
– Both in our country and the neighboring countries high ranked positions are occupied by people who are not from cities and intelligent families. Maybe it is not a good example but Napoleon was not from a city either and was from provinces but could become a caesar.
– Let’s not forget that Napoleon is a unique case in the world history. Napoleon would never be a Caesar if the French revolution did not take place. In the beginning, as it is written in the memory book of Robespier’s sister, Napoleon was an adventurer from province and he could raise up exclusively due to his personal characteristics. There are bright persons in villages too.
– Do you think that our political leaders are adventurers from provinces but they are not so bright people?
– Yes I do. I haven’t seen any idea or vision of Armenia’s future so far, I haven’t heard any of them saying what problems we have now, what our goals for the future 10, 20 and 50 years are.
– What is the main problem of our country that should be addressed urgently now?
– One of the main goals is to recognize how valuable a human being is. We should understand that every person’s time is valuable and every person has a unique role and place, which should be used adequately. When we say that Armenia must be strong everyone understands the army. They understand the physical strength. I think that first of all our strength is our mind because the mind is more universal than the army. As we don’t have a political history we are making the same mistakes as throughout centuries. During many centuries the nation and human beings were not valuable. Now our biggest issue is the issue of Karabakh and the second issue is to find our place in the world.
– This problem of finding our place in the world has always been actual for us.
– Yes, this is a problem of finding our role and place, which context is directly connected with the Genocide. I think that the main strategic issue is the Genocide as the main action to ruin the entire Armenian world. This is a very tangible issue and we should carefully connect it with the issue of Karabakh. Half of the Armenian world was annihilated and massacred in the 18, 19 and 20 centuries. Until the Armenians recover the Armenian world every Armenian will not feel good and will have complexes.
– As you are not a member of the ARF I hope by saying recover you don’t mean the historical Armenia which was situated in between the two seas but overcoming the complexes inside every person. Is it so?
– Yes, it should be done inside. People should realize that their dignity is not abused. Now when Armenians go to the Western Armenia they stand near the historical places and make photos thus trying to recover the broken parts of their dignity. I don’t quite understand the new myth of compensation when they say that the treasures and gold of their grandparents are under this or that tree or stone. If those grandparents lived so well it means Turkey was not such a bad place. From this point of view we should understand our mistakes. If we are able to understand the political mistakes in the history well, we are supposed to solve those problems well too. We should play a political game. This is why I say that the presidents of Armenia are not able to make combinations.
– You mean a political game? Even though we know that Levon Ter-Petrosyan is a great chess player Kocharyan could do it better in the practical life with his basketball skills. I don’t know any details about the game Serzh Sargsyan prefers but we know that he is the president of the chess federation as well.
– They play chess well but they can’t play political games well enough.
– You said that it is a big problem when a president has a provincial origin. On the other hand there is no noble class and environment in Armenia where such noble people could be brought up. Do you see anyone in the political field who can comply with those standards of being brought up in a noble environment?
– The president should be born from the intelligentsia. In all biggest and richest countries presidents come out from this group. However it doesn’t mean that his father must be a historian but not a worker. He should be brought up by a higher class, environment and family, also he should have a great potential to become a good politician.
– Does it mean that he should also be ready psychologically in order not to lose the mind after becoming a president?
– Of course. The nation is lost when philologist are given the first or second positions in the country. It is done by chance and such cases should be excluded. We should have such group, then select someone from this group through a harsh competition, then make a good professional from him and help him go up.
– We have had three presidents and for each of them it was a difficult psychological problem to leave politics. Why?
– They don’t want to leave because they have not finished their work, they have not done it till the end. Each of them looks back and sees that he has not done many things that could have been done. By returning they can come back to the political field and try to do more. What Levon Ter-Petrosyan says is that he wants three years to correct the mistakes and situation. In the future Kocharyan may say the same and he may say that he has done mistakes and he needs time to correct those mistakes. It is not a game and we are not playing. The same thing can be said about Serzh Sargsyan as well. He wants to do some good job. He wants but he doesn’t work with the people that can help him.
– During one of our conversations you said that our nation has about 30-60 people who care about it too much and are competent. Is this number still the same?
– It is a pity but it has not changed. There was time when Robert Kocharyan said that people could go to other countries, make money and then return to Armenia. If you think that it is a good thing that our Diaspora has become bigger due to the Armenian migrants it is not well. How did God create the man? The mind and brains are on the top. The apparatus that are serving the mind, i.e. the ears, eyes, nose and mouth are on the upper part of the body too. The stomach is lower and its role is to send signals to the brains that it is hungry. That’s all. The stomach thinks about the whole body too, but it does it from the point of view of not being hungry. However we are giving preference to the stomach and some people think that the stomach can serve as brains too. It brings to a deadlock…