“Levon sells the fatherland, the others exploit it”

04/04/2008 Lilit AVAGYAN

– Mr. Sahakyants, the people’s protests after the presidential elections, the events of March 1, which followed after those made different people and even the ones, who support the government, think that not everything is alright in our country. However, if I am not mistaken, you are one of the few people, who don’t draw conclusions about the people who didn’t agree with the results of elections.

– What we have witnessed after February 19 and on March 1 will be mentioned as a national total treason in our history textbooks in 1600 years. One should be totally ignorant not to understand that what Levon Ter-Petrosyan was trying to do to Armenia is make it a military base for the NATO, convert it into an American-Turkish province. In the end the sky-blue soldiers would enter Armenia after the Armenians would shed sea of blood.

– You are saying what you think would happen… However, you skip the reasons, which made hundreds of thousand people go out to the streets.

– I haven’t seen any ballot stuffing in the polling-station, where I voted. No one has offered any election bribe to me, my relatives and family. Therefore, I cannot condemn, although I believe that in some villages or smaller communities such things could be possible. However, all this shades away compared to the goals, which Levon was following. This is one of those cases, when all the means are justified for bringing the treacherous 5th regiment into play. It is nonsense when they are saying that people should at least once make their choice especially when I look at those people, who are mostly illiterate and unaware of the treacherous tricks. The people were brought to such a state through splendidly elaborated western methods.

– So, you also think that those strange words, “family,” “fatherland,” “victory” are encoded messages.

– Yes definitely. Why did people go to the square then?

– They were dissatisfied with the election outcome.

– They don’t believe that Levon could have fulfilling the order and assignment of foreign states, the US. If you tell these things people would laugh by saying, “where are we? Where are the States?” In that case I nominate Ilham Aliyev as President. He would come out and say that Serzh is bad. We must be real donkeys to follow Ilham Aliyev. And why wouldn’t we be donkeys to follow Levon?

– Do you think that all these people, who were in the square, are idiots?

– Yes, I do. Everyone is because there is no morality and brains.

– Out there at the square there were hundreds of intelligentsia representatives, young people, spiritual leaders, etc.

– All they had their own motives. One was there for his future position; the others think that the Karabakh residents must be kicked out from here. Everything is so low that I don’t even wish to discuss.

– The reality shows that the people, who entered the coalition, were the ones to incline for high positions.

– Why?

– Maybe they wish to cooperate. I can say the same about you by claiming that you are sold to your chief editor because he pays you salary.

– You could have done that if I before being hired to work claimed that by future boss is corrupt, a thief and ungrateful. During their campaigns Artur Baghdasaryan and Vahan Hovhannisyan were blaming the government of such faults, which the RA Criminal Code defines many years of imprisonment.

– I think the regime clearly understands that the second attempt of Levon’s return will be lethal and it will happen soon if the incumbent government doesn’t take the necessary steps to improve the country. This regime is also immoral. Unlike Levon they don’t sell their fatherland, they exploit it instead. This is the same thing for an average person. And if Baghdasaryan turns out to be a normal person and offers practical reforms, he must cooperate.

– Why did you not vote Baghdasaryan?

– Because I don’t believe him. All he is saying is fully populism.

– Does this mean that he entered the political coalition with his populist plans?

– Yes, he did. That’s why the President is holding his ear by saying, “let’s see what you got.”

– Why did you not vote for Vahan Hovhannisyan?

– I would have voted for Vahan but I thought that it would be wrong to take away Serzh’s vote in the conditions when Levon was attacking.

– Why do you think that by voting for the ARF Serzh’s votes are being taken away?

– I think so. Do you know what Levon gave? He gave us the ability to understand that it is no way to live in an ignorant, illiterate way like monkeys do.

– Don’t you think that the people, who went out to the square, were the ones, who showed that it is no way to continue living like this?

– No. Do you want me to enumerate 500 ways of fighting against the government?

– Yes, please.

– Why are you interviewing me and not someone else?

– Your thoughts are unique.

– You are saying unique but many others do not have a unique way of thinking. This intelligentsia has been isolated for 15 years because didn’t wish to spoil relations with any of the governments. I am not saying go and support Serzh Sargsyan. I am saying you could have supported Levon only if you could justify your steps. Are these people not ashamed today? They are saying, “who else if not Levon?” In that case why did they let him leave so easily 10 years ago? If they were consistent in all the steps I would respect them. I respect Aram Manukyan regardless of everything. He has his own standpoint and follows his principles. We don’t have the right intelligentsia to positively influence on the government. Do you have an MP, who instead of hiding his weapons in the lake, would advocate his standpoint?

– Perhaps you are hinting at Sasun Michaelyan. Can you speak so contemptuously of some other MP, let’s say Seyran Saroyan? The latter perhaps doesn’t hide his weapons in the lake but instead his son as recently the press wrote, has beaten a man to death.

– Didn’t hear of that. Is he arrested now?

– Not at all.

– I don’t think he will be arrested.

– We have many other MPs, who with their activity look like a bomb.

– Indeed. I was saying that after that night the most terrible thing that Levon did is that Serzh is not obliged to criminal elements now.

– You have mentioned the people, who are saying that if not Levon then who. However there are more people, who don’t wish to see Levon Ter-Petrosyan as President of this country. However, besides Ter-Petrosyan no one else started an actual fight against illegalities.

– What about Ilham Aliyev? Levon doesn’t even hide that he is Ilham. He says that the residents of Karabakh must be kicked out from here. Is that normal? He says that a contribution must be paid to Azerbaijan. Is that normal? There are 350.000 Armenians from Baku, who have lost everything they had. But he instead promises contribution to Azerbaijan. In that case, what is the difference between him and Ilham? The latter has also read many books and is very educated. There are a million ways to express a political approach. Gather in some village, demand from an MP but not follow Levon.

– They go to stroll in the Northern Avenue without Levon but are massively arrested. Yes, today. They should have done all this four years ago. Go form parties, make speeches in the media. There are any opportunities for live broadcast now.

– The impression is that you have probably never had the chance to watch the H1.

– The H1 is a separate conversation. That is a Latin American TV channel. If the H1 doesn’t have enough state budget support then they add it in order to increase advocacy. It is totally impermissible to watch cheap and low-quality soap operas on the public TV. If the H1 was able to show analytical programs for the past 10 years we would have had the chance to avoid the events of March 1. What a horrible taste is it to how the “Slave Isaura”?

– Let us go back to the events of March 1 when in the morning the police attacked the innocent protesters.

– What were the innocent and peaceful protesters doing in the Liberty Square?

– Protesting on the outcome of the presidential elections.

– They have been warned for ten days to leave the square. In that case why do we have the law on holding rallies and meetings?

– The Municipality has denied all the requests of the protesters to sanction their rallies.

– It did the right thing. If they were not allowed they could have applied to the Constitutional Court. Isn’t 20% enough? Where did he pick the 65%? This is hooliganism. In some other country the given presidential candidate would be arrested for creating civic disorder.

– You personify this movement and only see Levon Ter-Petrosyan and meanwhile don’t notice hundreds of thousand of people. You consider them ignorant.

– Yes, that is right because only ignorant and treacherous people can follow Ilham Aliyev. OK, let’s say they reached their goal. What would they do on the second day? Would they give up Karabakh and launch a civil war?

– You are so sure. Do you have any concrete facts?

– Do you think Levon would protect the NKR till the end? Perhaps you wish to say that you like Vano and Bagratyan.

– You are personifying the complaint and discontent of the people.

– Definitely. These are illiterate people.

– How do you personally fight against the negative phenomena?

– If I wished to raise much noise I would enter the politics. I would call the people, who I trust. I would gather a group of people in the Writers’ Union and demand improvements. Let the simple and poor people gather there. Do you think it is heroism to go against the police? Besides foulness let’s suppose that it is also heroism. The psychology of a crowd works here. But is someone heroic enough to do things on his own. Let’s say can they spit on their head of community or village for foulness? There were powerful rural movements.

– You have also spoken about involving other forces. However, several days ago Serzh Sargsyan left for Russia to confirm his loyalty to that country. Do you think it is an act of knocking to Tatar-Mongolian door?

– Don’t you know the difference? Russia is a permanent traitor but meanwhile our only actual partner. America… that girl, which had only recently got down the tree. I mean Condoleezza Rice, who doesn’t understand what historic reality is, khachkars of Jugha. We will become Singapore, where everyone will have English names and will be happy. Do you want Armenians to live like that? I don’t think so. A small country has to cooperate with a big one. We should choose between the constantly smiling Bryza and Russia, which is a traitor, careless partner but due to this partnership we will protect us from the outer enemies. If the US adopted the genocide, made our neighbors to return our historic lands, recognized Karabakh I would choose the US for 100%. I am saying that voting for Levon is either immoral or ignorant. It is equivalent to the fact of not knowing that Armenia is on the Earth, that Bush has his personal oil interests in the war against Iraq. If I don’t understand those things then who am I?

– Do you think the ones, who voted for the governmental candidate as a focal point accepted the oil interests of Bush?

– Of course not.

– There were victims on March 1.

– In the whole world the thieves and vandals are being shot.

– Would you shoot?

– I would personally shoot them with an automatic gun. I would do it even now. If I see some rogue with a metal bar hitting a car I would personally shoot him. I don’t have time to waste on questioning that idiot.

– Would you arrest the people, who would walk in the Northern Avenue after February 20?

– No. Not them. Ter-Petrosyan must be in prison. Definitely. If we are speaking of Christian kind values let us in that case release Nairi Hunanyan and his brother as well. Things happen. They are Armenians, we must forgive them. They are just slightly hotheaded. Why don’t we pity them and instead pity some rogue, who is stealing salad from a store or breaking a lock?

– Don’t you personally complain about the March 1 events, when overnight the director of Matenadaran was arrested?

– Perhaps he was raping a teenage girl. Why should I know?

– Is this how you respond?

– Perhaps he shouldn’t have been arrested.

– During our conversation you said that you have hopes with the coalition to work out.

– Even if only we had Serzh Sargsyan’s intention and determination the coalition would work out. I have spoken about Baghdasaryan and Hovhannisyan. Gagik Tsarukyan is a world champion. It means he has a strong will. Yes, he is a feudal, yes, he has issues with taste. It seems that there are many intelligent people around him. Let them advise him to change his style, his haircut. Those oligarchs are not well-bred. The intelligent people are scared to open their mouths in their presence.

– Regardless of your personal attitude the situation in the country is pretty tense. Do you see any way of decreasing this tension?

– If it depended on me I would offer the government only two years, a tight agenda of work, 24 hours a day to work to stabilize and improve the situation. And if they don’t justify themselves I will go against them all alone if I am alive. I am sure that three million people would prefer that instead of following Levon.